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Post by TrekMD on Aug 10, 2012 7:22:12 GMT -5
That looks very nice. It would be a dream to play Vectrex games on a screen that size!
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Post by gamezone on Aug 10, 2012 12:34:23 GMT -5
Sweet! Now that is how I want to play.
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 20, 2012 12:32:46 GMT -5
I sent away for a page magnifier/fresnel lens, and received it this morning. It's a bit bigger than most of what I've seen or heard of (which is why I paid $20 for it). Advertised as 10"x12", it's actually about 1/4" shorter than that in each dimension, plus another 1/4" of a molded border that is not part of the lens. Also the corners are cut straight across, which I find undesirable. ... It is approximately the size of a 15" television though, the size that is in the cabaret cabinets, and I think it magnifies pretty convincingly. Made of rigid plastic. In the picture below, the lens is positioned about 8" away from the face of the Web Wars overlay. The Berzerk overlay is pinned in front of the lens to compare the size. Attachments:
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 20, 2012 12:39:55 GMT -5
sorry, same pic re-posted below, re-sized so you can actually view it. Attachments:
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Post by VectorX on Aug 20, 2012 12:57:53 GMT -5
I sent away for a page magnifier/fresnel lens, Hey cool, someone *else* actually did this! Let me know how it goes, since the vectors usually don't retain their sharpness with it in place (unfortunately), but the results can still be pretty interesting! I don't play Gravitrex without it, for instance, as, even though the lines aren't as sharp, you can see everything this time around, as everything's a lot bigger! Also, I didn't even know you could get them in the size you got yours for.
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 20, 2012 16:18:29 GMT -5
Hey cool, someone *else* actually did this! Yeh, you inspired me Darryl! ... I think the prospect of a giant vector monitor is quite awesome, but I also am really interested in optical means of magnifying. One of the main reasons for this is that the overlays are such a big part of the Vectrex for me, and the optical method of course magnifies the overlay, along with the vector graphics. ... If you have a new giant monitor for the Vectrex, you also have a new problem of how to reproduce new giant overlays. (Plus of course the optical stuff is easier, cheaper and safer to do and doesn't require dismantling your Vectrex.) I'm surprised how hard it was for me to find this 10x12 fresnel. I would think there would be all sorts of stuff out there, even of larger dimensions. Also with mirrors, I would think there would be lots of 'magic mirrors' like used to be in carnivals and stuff. ... Closest i can find in that department is the (quite common) circular vanity mirror. But I guess you would need a very large one if you are eventually cropping the circle down to a rectangle. I haven't found one large enough for that, and the larger ones i've found are hundreds of dollars. ... I'd imagine there would be a lot of distortion in any system involving a mirror like this. ... But I don't know. If you look at how camera/projector lenses work, there is always a convergence of the image occurring at some point in the process, and always a lens that is warped, kind of like the vanity mirror. ... With the images produced by ultra-wide ("short") fish eye camera lenses, you see lots of distortion. ... But "long" telephoto lenses have a tendency to flatten the image, the way you would probably want the vectrex screen to be projected. Overhead and Opaque projectors seem to be some prospect, but both of those involve intense additional lighting. ... Magnifying mirrors might seem like a ridiculous notion, but certainly there are already arcade cabinets that use mirrors for the display. I realize none of those are magnifying ones, but still when you see that the angled mirrors that are in use are able to produce non distorted screens, it seems to be possible to me. ... The wide screen X-men cabinet uses two monitors to display a panoramic image. The left monitor is pointed straight out at the player, but the right one is actually a mirrored image of a monitor set below and facing up. I suppose they did this so that the two images could be all the way flush, rather than having a gap in between. ... The reflection is fluid with the other monitor and I don't think that the hidden monitor is displaying any sort of irregular image in order to get it to appear normal in reflection - just a properly placed mirror, or pair of mirrors.
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Post by VectorX on Aug 20, 2012 16:43:14 GMT -5
I'm surprised how hard it was for me to find this 10x12 fresnel. I would think there would be all sorts of stuff out there, even of larger dimensions. Eh, I think the main reason for purchase is for people to be able to read print better, hence there wouldn't be much of a need for a company to make one any bigger than the size of a standard notebook page. If someone's using that for something bigger that that (like a newspaper), they can just move the sheet as they come across more text to read if the sheet's too small. Yeh, you inspired me Darryl! You've inspired me as well to see about snagging one of these bigger ones at some point once I have $20 to blow
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 20, 2012 21:00:45 GMT -5
Update: The sun has gone down now so my room is no longer flooded with light, so now I have tested the 10 x 12 page magnifier in darkness. It looks awesome! Picture below honestly does not do it justice. (it is difficult to take photographs in the darkness.) Berzerk overlay again included for size reference. It is flush with the magnifier. ... if you are interested in buying the same one I bought, it can be purchased at: www.loopityloupes.com/product_p/bg-1.htmAttachments:
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 20, 2012 21:07:46 GMT -5
ha on the subject of this being difficult to faithfully photograph, and the idea that the pictures don't do it justice, here is a phantom holograph effect i photographed. In this instance the photo renders something that is not perceivable in real life. Attachments:
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Post by VectorX on Aug 20, 2012 22:04:30 GMT -5
sun has gone down now so my room is no longer flooded with light, so now I have tested the 10 x 12 page magnifier in darkness. It looks awesome! That's good! Do the vectors still look sharp or are they a little blurred and/or distorted? Picture below honestly does not do it justice. Yeah it's tough to do. I've tried taking pics with and without the lens to try to show how much bigger it can make some games look but the camera couldn't tell the difference and it ended up looking the same. But then the camera's over 10 years old... here is a phantom holograph effect i photographed. In this instance the photo renders something that is not perceivable in real life. That's killer!! Do you have Spike Hoppin'? The effect goes all prism once you complete a level
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 21, 2012 1:08:40 GMT -5
The magnified vectors still look pretty sharp to me. I might be starting to get a headache now though...
I don't think I have Spike Hoppin. I have regular Spike game and I have some demo that came on another CGC cart. ... I do have a VecFlash though, so I could potentially try anything that is available in ROM form, unless it requires special RAM like Animaction. ... Honestly I am surprised with how well this lens works. I really think it would be viable and big enough for a cabinet set up.
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Post by vectrexmad on Aug 21, 2012 6:52:58 GMT -5
Gliptitude, this is interesting. I agree that having a big monitor leads to the problem of requiring a customised overlay size.
Do you just see a magnified image? Do you see any strange optical effects. I know when I tried with one of those reading Fresnel lenses I saw distortion of the vector lines, a sort of spiral effect. What about if you are positioned slightly to left or right of the lens is the image corrupted?
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 21, 2012 14:28:38 GMT -5
Do you just see a magnified image? Do you see any strange optical effects. I know when I tried with one of those reading Fresnel lenses I saw distortion of the vector lines, a sort of spiral effect. What about if you are positioned slightly to left or right of the lens is the image corrupted? Perhaps there was slightly more than just the magnified image. But not undesirable distortion in my opinion. There was a slight circular glare, basically two rings in the lens. The lighting conditions affect this some. As I remember, this glare was most noticeable when I had all the lights off, and the vector graphics were reflecting most strongly on the back of the lens. ... When I was trying this out in the dark last night I had the etched side of the lens facing the Vectrex, and the smooth side facing me. Perhaps flipping the lens would change this glare, not sure. It does magnify in both directions, but I suspect there would be different and less desirable glare in this scenario. I will say that the one real negative is that yes it does make a difference where you position yourself when looking at it. I didn't notice so much of a problem going to the left or right because i was naturally looking straight at it. But vertically, I had to switch chairs so that I my eyes were roughly level with the center of the screen. ...I suppose left/right would be big problem if you were trying to play 2 player simultaneous. In a cabinet scenario though, with one player playing at a time, I think you would have sufficient control of how it was viewed. ... The viewers eyes, the lens and the Vectrex screen need to all be roughly in line with one another. With the cabaret cabinet I've been talking about, the set-up would naturally guide the player to look in at a certain angle. However, I don't think the existing dimensions of all this stuff would fit. I attached a ROUGH diagram of that below. ... Between the Vectrex and the distance that the lens needs to be from it, it adds up to a very deep display. Also, even though this 10 x 12 lens frame roughly equals the dimensions of the 15" cabaret monitor, the vertical orientation of Vectrex obviously changes things. For sure if you wanted to build a cabinet around this lens/vectrex, you'd want to experiment with where it needs to sit and how the angles might vary from player to player. Probably a cabinet of custom dimensions would be necessary. Having a larger monitor and custom large size overlays would probably work better than this, but I think this would be pretty practical and viable, considering how much less work it would be. The novelty of the magnified image is pretty cool in my opinion, and big enough and predictable enough to build around. Attachments:
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Post by VectorX on Aug 21, 2012 14:53:16 GMT -5
For sure if you wanted to build a cabinet around this lens/vectrex, you'd want to experiment with where it needs to sit and how the angles might vary from player to player. Yeah he had contacted me about that specifically a while back. Once I started telling him of getting a bit of blur/prism-like effects he realized it wouldn't be possible trying a simple lens to make the screen look bigger. It sounds like the one you got is way better than the one I have though, and is a bit more hopeful in that regard.
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Post by vectrexmad on Aug 21, 2012 19:36:33 GMT -5
For sure if you wanted to build a cabinet around this lens/vectrex, you'd want to experiment with where it needs to sit and how the angles might vary from player to player. Yeah he had contacted me about that specifically a while back. Once I started telling him of getting a bit of blur/prism-like effects he realized it wouldn't be possible trying a simple lens to make the screen look bigger. It sounds like the one you got is way better than the one I have though, and is a bit more hopeful in that regard. After seeing Darrly's attempt I tried to recreate his experiments myself and purchased a reading lens about a year ago. But soon gave up on the idea when I played some games with the lens. Some games displayed worse optical effects than others. But yes sounds like the lens you have is much better than the ones Darrly and I used. So i'm seriously tempted to splash out and buy one of these lenses.
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