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Post by Serious on Jun 30, 2014 11:19:30 GMT -5
Hi everyone, VectorX invited me to share some info about a web site that I created, highscore.com (aka " High Score"), on this forum. I know a few of you are already familiar with the site and participate there, but for those of you who are not, I'll explain what it is all about.. Do you remember what it was like (when arcade games were popular) to achieve the top score on your local machine? It was different back then, because getting that top score meant something. Lots of other people were striving for the same thing (and those scores did not get wiped out at the end of the day). Similarly, do you remember reading the high score list in popular video game magazines, and striving to try and break one of those records? Or playing Activision games, hoping to achieve the score required to mail-away for a patch? Do you remember playing new games when they'd show up in arcades, when people would line their quarters up on the machine, and when you finally got your turn, there was a crowd of people watching you play? Or making friends (or enemies) at your local arcade when playing Gauntlet or Street Fighter II? For myself, and many others, those are some of our best memories, and it is something that has been lost with time.. For years, I have wanted to try to find a way to recreate that experience and those feelings.. I considered opening my own arcade for a time, but the arcades I've been to over the last decade don't seem to really have that feeling that I'm talking about. All of the games may be there, but the social element and the experience I'm talking about aren't the same. The idea behind High Score is to recreate those kinds of experiences via an online setting. Similar to how Facebook was created to "recreate the college social experience", High Score is an effort to recreate the 1980s arcade social experience. The main element of High Score is being able to meet and compete with other players on your favorite games, no matter how obscure. Even if the game isn't in the database, yet, I'll add it upon request, and other members will often start competing with you on that game after they see your submission. Whatever game you want to play, if it can be scored, you can post it on High Score (with a photo, video, or both). Your submissions will be seen and reviewed by at least 25 other members of the site, and they will vote on whether or not they think your score is legit. When voting is completed, if the majority of your peers think it is legit, you will receive trophies for having the best score on that game in your city, state, country, or the world. Depending on the game, achieving a top score in the world or national level can be very difficult, but many city and state trophies are currently up-for-grabs. Trophies will appear in your trophy case, which you can customize, and it's a place where you can show off your gaming accomplishments. If you achieve a #1 worldwide ranking on the site, your accomplishment will be broadcast out to thousands of people via @highscore on Twitter and other social networks, and it will appear in the site's rankings anytime someone searches for that game. The photos or videos of your accomplishments will remain on highscore.com for everyone to see. If you're like me, and you remember when having the high score at your local arcade meant something, or you've enjoyed trying to beat your friend's high score, I invite you to re-experience that feeling on High Score. Please come and check it out. Thanks, Serious P.S. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions.
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Post by VectorX on Jun 30, 2014 11:36:52 GMT -5
Very nice introductory post. I never thought of it as re-creating "high scores at the local arcade days", so that's pretty cool. There are also a lot of cool people that you can leave messages for, as well as on their high score entry pages. I've been enjoying myself there quite a bit over the last several weeks talking with people and getting scores up. Everyone feel free to also spread the word to your gaming friends of this site too The more people on means the quicker scores can be validated!
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Post by TrekMD on Jun 30, 2014 16:38:00 GMT -5
Cool, thanks for sharing the details about the site.
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Post by Rapetou33 on Jul 7, 2014 14:34:18 GMT -5
My first impress could be better. The site is nice and easy to use. But you are supposed to make a perfect picture with all the features that any of the 25 voters can ask for -or even a video + your name + phone number + size + income + religion ... "sorry guys, my naked wife in background won't prove anything in terms of right use of the stick". All that to prove that you are the very one who plays, that you haven't cheated, recoded the game, all that to win ...what exactly ? Where is the friendly "atmosphere" ? That's what I feel for the time ...
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Post by VectorX on Jul 7, 2014 14:39:58 GMT -5
Yes, unfortunately (sorry Serious), there are a few individuals that are now voting no even when people have videos to the point where it's getting ridiculous (one guy pointed out this morning that someone voted no on one of his submissions was ignorant, since it supposedly wasn't emulated. It was a handheld unit of some sort that was VERY obviously not an Atari 2600, so, yes, it was indeed Atari 2600 emulated and in the correct place. The no vote wasn't deserved). I was disgusted myself at your Vector Pilot shot that, while blurry (yet still readable), was down to like 60 something percent legit. Even though I don't have the game myself I've still seen the high score table on several YouTube videos that I'm pretty sure it was legit, so I voted yes on it.
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Post by Rapetou33 on Jul 8, 2014 2:30:20 GMT -5
Yes, unfortunately (sorry Serious), there are a few individuals that are now voting no even when people have videos to the point where it's getting ridiculous (one guy pointed out this morning that someone voted no on one of his submissions was ignorant, since it supposedly wasn't emulated. It was a handheld unit of some sort that was VERY obviously not an Atari 2600, so, yes, it was indeed Atari 2600 emulated and in the correct place. The no vote wasn't deserved). I was disgusted myself at your Vector Pilot shot that, while blurry (yet still readable), was down to like 60 something percent legit. Even though I don't have the game myself I've still seen the high score table on several YouTube videos that I'm pretty sure it was legit, so I voted yes on it. Thank you VectorX for your opinion, support and vote. I am afraid that, if Serious doesn't put his house in order, his site may turn into a fight arena where retaliation and bad faith escalation is the only way to exchange (sorry I am thinking in French so that my English may not be that clear) I have contacted Serious to have a conversation about it. Let's see.
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Post by VectorX on Jul 8, 2014 7:27:38 GMT -5
I am afraid that, if Serious doesn't put his house in order, Well, he's pretty busy, as me and at least one other person put in requests for games to be added to the site days ago that hasn't happened yet. There's been talk on the forums there in regards to that as well. his site may turn into a fight arena where retaliation and bad faith escalation is the only way to exchange It's getting there, as people are now practically demanding videos on MAME rather than photos of gameplay (yet there is no rule specifying that), but then I've been seeing several videos that were voted down, yet I didn't see anything fishy about them. Granted, I don't really want to go on about it here because I don't want to scare off any potential new members. It IS a warning though: I'd still join and post some scores and see how it goes. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll get shot down. But if they do then it might not be worth it. (sorry I am thinking in French so that my English may not be that clear) No, it's fine. I have contacted Serious to have a conversation about it. Let's see. There's been talk of it already, mainly that it should be mandatory for there to be a reason with a No vote. I also feel there should be a banning of a person when a mistake is made (which I also posted the other week on the forums), along with an appeal: as one of the top players on there, Shinje (or something like that) pointed out one where someone stated his Atari 2600 game the other day was placed in the wrong category, that it wasn't emulated. He had a portable device that was very obviously NOT a 2600. The guy was wrong, as his gaming device was definitely running a 2600 emulator. An appeal process would be good, where that no vote would be retracted by Serious (or a future mod) and the person who wrongly voted no be given a warning; if they make the same mistake again, give them a ban for a few days. That would really fix the problems with people lashing out and giving No votes when they were wrong and/or have no evidence whatsoever of cheating.
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Post by VECTREXER on Jul 8, 2014 12:32:45 GMT -5
I think the more validation you have for your score, the better. As the Russian proverb says, "Доверяй, но проверяй". Platform used, settings, recordings, live feeds, on site witnesses, screen shots, play methods, drug testing, and player livelihood status all help to frame a reported score in a particular context and classification for fair and equal comparison.
I think we mostly have a better community in the people who buy, play, and build Vectrex related items.
With any trust comes the eventuality that someone will try to take advantage of the trust. The more verification a score has means the less likelihood a score might be reviewed as possibly invalid at some point in the future, or a possible need to reclassify the score into a new group.
I welcome all the details and verification methods that can be supported on a score reporting platform and count none of them as trivial or unneeded. But also tend count none of the scores invalid. Just unverified and placed into a separate class and group of their own. If the reporting platform supports that kind of thing.
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Post by VectorX on Jul 8, 2014 13:09:00 GMT -5
I welcome all the details and verification methods that can be supported on a score reporting platform and count none of them as trivial or unneeded. But also tend count none of the scores invalid. Just unverified and placed into a separate class and group of their own. If the reporting platform supports that kind of thing. Interesting thought, but no, there isn't one of those, just a temporary "waiting on votes" section for a game, and that's it.
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Post by Serious on Jul 9, 2014 14:28:59 GMT -5
Hi guys,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Please keep in mind that High Score is a work-in-progress, and user feedback is what is shaping the evolution of the site.
Something you guys may not realize is that there have been incidents of cheating. Sometimes this has happened on High Score, and sometimes it has happened in the past in gaming contests on forums where some of these folks know each other. Thankfully, it has been very rare, but it has occurred, so some members approach voting with a measure of skepticism.
Here's some examples of incidents that have occurred:
1. People posting photos, screenshots, or videos that belong to other people and claiming it as their own. 2. People using save states in emulators to restart in the middle of the game. 3. People using passwords or cheat codes to skip ahead in the game.
As I mentioned, these incidents have been very limited, and have only been committed by a very small number of participants, but they occur. (Why some people want to cheat at video games, I don't know, but it does happen occasionally.)
Having a photo or video shot with a camera where your name is written on paper helps to establish that it was you who played the game.
When someone votes against your submission, they are required to provide a reason, and that feedback is sent anonymously to the person who submitted the score. The purpose of that is to help the submitter understand what other members are looking for from their evidence to validate their claim.
Generally, no one is going to get 100% "Yes" votes from every member of the site on every score. And the better your score is, the higher the burden of proof many voters may place on you to give your claim credibility, especially in cases where your score would beat several other people. (Consider how you might feel if you take the trouble to provide documentation of a very good score that you achieved, and someone else submits weak evidence of an even higher score and bumps you from the top spot. )
If you wish to use High Score just to track your own scores, you can do that. If you don't attach evidence to your submission, it won't go into voting.
However, if you wish to play competitively against other players (earning points, trophies, etc) hopefully you can recognize that a certain amount of proof is going to be expected by other members to ensure fairness. You're probably never going to convince 100% people 100% of the time, but as long as you can get 20 out of 25 people to support your claim in the voting, your score is accepted.
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Post by VectorX on Jul 9, 2014 15:36:15 GMT -5
Something you guys may not realize is that there have been incidents of cheating. Sometimes this has happened on High Score, and sometimes it has happened in the past in gaming contests on forums where some of these folks know each other. Thankfully, it has been very rare, but it has occurred, so some members approach voting with a measure of skepticism. Yeah, I've known all along that it's only a few bad apples ruining the bunch, but its gotten annoying. Hope things can get worked out for the better.
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Post by darrin9999 on Jul 9, 2014 23:03:37 GMT -5
I have a M.A.M.E. arcade. and every score I post has a bunch of No votes! Its not like I`m scoring 999,999,999 on any games like some people. Its crazy!!
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Post by Rapetou33 on Jul 10, 2014 1:39:33 GMT -5
I have a M.A.M.E. arcade. and every score I post has a bunch of No votes! Its not like I`m scoring 999,999,999 on any games like some people. Its crazy!! I am not surprised ... It is so simple : if you don't want your score to be beaten or just want to mess up the site, just vote "no" anonymously. You can always find a reason for not agreeing a score, even fallacious. Sorry for you Dar. I will vote for yours
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Post by woolfman on Jul 20, 2014 7:44:43 GMT -5
Just registered there and posted a highscore in my profile. Didn´t know that it has to be "verified" by others... Here´s the link: www.highscore.com/score/?s=12180
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Post by Rapetou33 on Jul 20, 2014 8:14:18 GMT -5
Just registered there and posted a highscore in my profile. Didn´t know that it has to be "verified" by others... Here´s the link: www.highscore.com/score/?s=12180That's done... voted Yes (a piece of advice : place your name on a paper in front of your vectrex : so that people vote yes more willingly) Please have a look at my vectrex scores, have about 5 scores to get legit. Go to "waiting on votes" then "vectrex" / Thanks
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