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Post by sokurah on Aug 18, 2014 2:55:10 GMT -5
Considering how popular vector games are, and how many of them has already been remade, I'm often wondering why no one has remade Gravitar yet?
I'd love to "just" remake Thrust but it would probably end up looking like the already awesome Thrust Xtreme - which would be kind of a waste of my time, so in that sense Gravitar would be the perfect choice as it hasn't already been remade.
However, I don't really enjoy Gravitar all that much. Well, it's fun to play for 5-10 minutes once in a while - just to waste a bit of time, but never with the intent of getting anywhere. The damn game is just too hard to play. I'm not so sure it's worth putting so much time into remaking a game that'll end up being to hard for the casual player and only be played by a very small group of people.
Complexity-wise there's a lot to do for a remaker; universes, solar systems (with different types and number of planets in them), zooming vectors, gravity and reverse gravity, invisible levels, spaceships hunting you, dogfights (or whatever you call that part when you're being chased by the spaceships in the solarsystem) and loads of animations.
Do you think the complexity of the game or the difficulty of the gameplay is to blame for it not already having been remade? ...or perhaps it's more a case of many excellent Gravitar-like games already being out there (like the awesome Gravitron games).
It's not like I have the time to work on a thing like this for quite some time anyway, but wouldn't it be better to work on something original once I do?
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Post by VectorX on Aug 18, 2014 8:14:49 GMT -5
Considering how popular vector games are, and how many of them has already been remade, I'm often wondering why no one has remade Gravitar yet? Good question! Not real sure about the "popular" part though, as it just seems to me that there's only a handful of vector games being released a year on any given platform. One consideration would be that the original wasn't a huge hit as it was, only getting an Atari 2600 port of it, for one thing. Well, it's fun to play for 5-10 minutes once in a while - just to waste a bit of time, but never with the intent of getting anywhere. The damn game is just too hard to play. ...and that's another one. Another one is that if a remake is too close to the original, Atari could have it removed. They did it with the Vector Tanks app, even though it wasn't really like Battlezone. I'm not so sure it's worth putting so much time into remaking a game that'll end up being to hard for the casual player and only be played by a very small group of people. Complexity-wise there's a lot to do for a remaker; universes, solar systems (with different types and number of planets in them), zooming vectors, gravity and reverse gravity, invisible levels, spaceships hunting you, dogfights (or whatever you call that part when you're being chased by the spaceships in the solarsystem) and loads of animations. John Dondzila had said for his Vectrex Gravitrex clone the last level took two weeks to hand draw and map out. Most of the zooming vectors were left out though. It's not like I have the time to work on a thing like this for quite some time anyway, but wouldn't it be better to work on something original once I do? Probably.
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Post by VectorX on Aug 18, 2014 8:16:52 GMT -5
...or perhaps it's more a case of many excellent Gravitar-like games already being out there (like the awesome Gravitron games). The online game Escape Vector is also a good one. No zooming landscapes though, if I remember correctly.
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Post by akator on Aug 18, 2014 8:49:24 GMT -5
Gravity Crash is very much like Gravitar, only it starts off easier. The much better difficulty ramp makes it one of the few games I massively prefer over the original. It was released on PSN for PS3, PSP, and PS Vita over the years.
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Post by sokurah on Aug 18, 2014 10:32:15 GMT -5
Another one is that if a remake is too close to the original, Atari could have it removed. They did it with the Vector Tanks app, even though it wasn't really like Battlezone. I can't say this for sure, but perhaps they're willing to let it slide if it is a freeware game, whereas the hammer might fall pretty fast if the game is sold for profit? Hopefully my Black Widow remake will remain safe because of that.
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Post by VectorX on Aug 18, 2014 10:39:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think they care about freeware.
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 18, 2014 14:22:15 GMT -5
I also always thought that Gravitar was "too difficult", but this was based mainly on my experience emulating the game. .. Gravitrex was much easier for me to pick up and really helped me get into the game. .. It is one of the most interesting and dynamic vector games in my opinion. I might even consider it the very best. .. After getting used to Gravitrex i was able to do much better on Gravitar, (on iPad with an Atari Duo joystick). Would love to get a chance to try the real arcade some day.
I think it is a game that could be fun to make some significant changes to also.
.. As far as the legality of it, or getting by without Atari shutting it down, maybe you could call it a sequel and have some association with AtariAge? I'm not sure how it was done but there is a "fan made" sequel to Haunted House 2600, which uses the layout of Adventure. Atari itself has included this game in modern collections. Isn't there also a homebrew sequel to Adventure that has been published and continues to be sold without any problems?
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Post by sokurah on Aug 19, 2014 2:55:58 GMT -5
John Dondzila had said for his Vectrex Gravitrex clone the last level took two weeks to hand draw and map out. Hmm, that sounds crazy. I don't know his workflow, but it sounds desperately like he'd needed to write a good level editor first.
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Post by VectorX on Aug 19, 2014 8:05:41 GMT -5
Could be he never came up with one, and he's long gone from Vectrex programming nowadays (last game came out with was in 2006 or 2007, with no foreseeable next game whatsoever ).
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jammajup
Vector Runner
multi-format retro gamer
Posts: 47
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Post by jammajup on Sept 11, 2014 15:29:01 GMT -5
I have seen a few games on various other systems which obviously have been influenced by Gravitar (or at least Lunar Lander I suppose) but not attempted to port the game directly which might be the answer. I think that the idea of thrusting shooting and collecting with gravity is sound but maybe Gravitar could of been implemented better to be more user friendly, I know nobody who likes it.
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Post by VectorX on Sept 11, 2014 15:44:34 GMT -5
^Not counting several of us on here though, of course
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Post by gliptitude on Sept 15, 2014 14:27:48 GMT -5
Yeh I think it is awesome and i do not consider it to be similar to Lunar Lander. The most similar game to me is Thrust, since it is a steer/thrust/shoot game that spans multiple screen LEVELS, (at least the Vectrex port is a steer/thrust mechanic).
I like how jammajup summarizes the idea "thrusting shooting and collecting with gravity" and i agree that is a sound concept and also agree it could be implemented much better, (to be more accessible as well as more gratifying). .. But it is such a rare example of a steer/thrust game that actually has some diversity and complexity in the levels, (the ONLY example that i know of among arcade games), so it's definitely one of my favorites.
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Post by detonator on Oct 9, 2014 15:09:56 GMT -5
I enjoyed Thrust and Oids a lot. But none of the remakes play like Gravitar. Not even close. Gravitar is 100% pure skill game and extremely enjoyable when you master the controls. It's a mixture of arcade fun and strategy. I never quite understood the "extremely difficult" claim. Completing the game is difficult but mastering the controls and playing to the 200K range is not. We had at least 20 guys in the local arcade who achieved that. Here's my complete walkthrough. www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLmAIyTOqGQ
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