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Post by gliptitude on May 25, 2016 12:25:01 GMT -5
I've been contemplating this list for a while because there are a number of VCS games that I can't really call good but I still have a look at and return to from time to time. Some of them are either unfair or have really bad controls, others just don't work properly and some are just really clumsy looking. But each game has something that intrigues me enough to visit it from time to time. Some of them I kind of think of as prototypes that could have been awesome if they were developed further.
A couple of these games are considered good by some people. I'll give some explanation for my choices.
I'm interested to add to this list if there are other nominees.
1. Gyruss 2. Starship 3. Stargunner 4. Ghost Manor 5. Mountain King 6. Spacemaster X-7 7. Frankenstein's Monster
1. Gyruss
I think this game is more than the console can handle and it's a pretty limited version of the arcade game. Flying around in a circle and depicting a spaceship pointed at the center accurately from every angle just isn't practical. In more ways than one this game plays as if it were broken or unfinished. .. But the music that the arcade game is famous for is actually really well implemented on this 2600 version. I can't think of a another VCS game with this much in-game music and the music here is really exciting. .. I also enjoy the constantly flickering 3D starfields.
2. Starship
I enjoy the crudeness of this game, especially the moon lander mode. I find the sprites kind of endearing and clumsy in a really iconic way. The complete lack of challenge in the moon lander mode blows my mind. .. It causes me a profound disconnect where i see myself as a lower primate and wonder what gaming and interactive video might amount to among other species. Maybe this could be called self-reflexivity.
3. Stargunner
Kind of a visual impression of Defender, without any of the dynamic gameplay elements. It's not much of a game but it is very tightly put together with nice sprites and intro music. Just kind of interesting to me to see such a superficial impression of an otherwise sophisticated game. It's a pretty sexy presentation in my opinion.
4. Ghost Manor
The intro music and some of the graphics are are pretty bold and arguably bad. There are (at least) three phases to the game. (I've never completed the third phase so I don't know what comes next). It's an interesting sequence, kind of ugly and confusing at times, but also pleasantly obscure and multidimensional. I think this game has more content than most 2600 games.
5. Mountain King
This is one that some people consider good. It's a pretty dynamic game with a diversity of objectives and challenges, a nice look to it and a really cool musical element. The only reason I say it sucks is that controls to me are downright offensive. In order to jump you have to press the joystick diagonally. This MIGHT be acceptable in a different game but in Mountain King jumping is a central part of the game. After you capture the crown you have to escape to the top of the level. There is a tight time limit and it involves a LOT of ACCURATE jumping. The consequence for missing a platform is often a long and very time consuming fall. .. I won't go into detail about all of the good things about this game. It's only this jumping mechanic that ruins it for me.
6. Spacemaster X-7
It's repetitive and not very challenging but the bombastic sound effects can be pretty delightful. I also like the multi-directional shooting control scheme. Stick controls movement when not shooting but holding down the fire button causes the ship to become stationary and then the stick controls the direction of fire, (rapid fire). This control scheme isn't all that gratifying in this game but I can imagine it being a really good control scheme in a different game. .. Off the top of my head i can't think of another game with these controls. .. I imagine they would work better in an analog (Vectrex) game where it amounted to more than eight directions.
7. Frankenstein's Monster
Some people like this game. I say no because I just don't find the gameplay fun. But the graphics, while not very good in my opinion, are really strange and redeeming somehow. Individual sprites are unimpressive but the overall scene is complicated and bizarre. There seems to be some baroque synbolism aesthetic to the whole thing. .. The game over sequence is amazing, the best I've seen on the console and totally justifies playing a game once in a while.
.. Agree? Disagree? See any games on here that are new to you? Have any to add?
.. For myself the signicance of this list is that I enjoy these (flawed) games more than a great number of "good" games. So I hope others might get the same use out of it, and share some more with me too. Many games for the 2600 I will admit are "good" and better than the games on this list, but I simply don't enjoy them or have any reason to play them.
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Post by VectorX on May 25, 2016 12:57:11 GMT -5
Heh, funny thread title 2. Starship I enjoy the crudeness of this game, One of the very first games to come out for the VCS. The arcade original was better (of course), especially with the flight yoke controller. especially the moon lander mode. The complete lack of challenge in the moon lander mode blows my mind. .. It causes me a profound disconnect where i see myself as a lower primate and wonder what gaming and interactive video might amount to among other species. I couldn't believe they had the nerve to call those variations "Lunar Lander", as I was expecting a raster version of the arcade game. What...the...hell? Telesys was a fairly cool company, especially since they didn't do much advertising so they could keep prices low on their games. It would've been nice to see what they would've blossomed into if the crash didn't kill them off so quick. I enjoyed their Ram It (game 3!), Cosmic Creeps and Demolition Herby. Yeah, controls can be a mess. A real different game though! I also think the difficulty level could've been lowered, such as NOT letting the bats steal the crown the first time you try to take it up the mountain. That's a load of b. s. But each game has something that intrigues me enough to visit it from time to time. .. Agree? Disagree? See any games on here that are new to you? Have any to add? Ever play Slot Racers? I think that would qualify, due to being a maze shooter being cool, but it gets too insanely fast with some of the game/maze variations there's no way to come up with a decent strategy for them.
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Post by gliptitude on May 25, 2016 18:48:11 GMT -5
Slot Racers, Ram It, Cosmic Creeps and Demolition Herby. I'll have to check them out.
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Post by VectorX on May 25, 2016 19:32:28 GMT -5
As you may already know, D. Herby is like an Amidar/Pepper II clone but on speed, where you have to fill up a screen (although a scrolling one) by filling up boxes by running over all sides of the box. I really liked the beeping sound from your car.
Ram It (again, playing game 3 is the best) takes a bit of a strategy to figure it out, even though its premise is simple. I thought C. Creeps got a bad rap with people complaining about it "only" having two screens, but that's more than many 2600 games had though! It's original and different though, at least.
S. Racers you need a second player due to no A. I. Might be fun for a bit until you see how the controls can get impossible on certain variations and you go at breakneck speed and get stuck spinning around various maze areas.
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Post by wyldephang on May 26, 2016 1:56:17 GMT -5
Good list, Glip, and well thought out. I don't have any personal memories of playing bad Atari 2600 games--at least not ones I would ever recommend tracking down. I've played E.T. and Ghostbusters, but you're better off not experiencing those two.
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Post by gliptitude on May 26, 2016 21:55:29 GMT -5
Hi wyldephang. .. Some people actually really like E.T. and I know there is a fixed ROM of it that makes the game a bit more playable. .. I can see that being a really good candidate for this list actually.
Those were some good suggestions VectorX. I'm not quite ready to add any of those to the list yet, but there are some candidates among them I'm still considering. Searching for reviews and pictures of those games also lead me to find some others I've never looked at before.
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8. Spacechase
Spacechase definitely sucks and is also definitely worth checking out. Total fits the criteria.
The game is way too repetitive and basic to deny that it sucks.
The game has a really interesting and unique background scrolling which is marginally effective. I also enjoy some of the simple monochrome enemy sprites quite a bit and consider them exceptionally well designed. The really solid contrast between the background and enemy/player graphics kind of gives the game an arcade look to it, beyond what I normally see on the 2600. I believe all inquisitive persons must check this game out.
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Cosmic Creeps and Coconuts are both being considered.
I'm not sure yet if Cosmic Creeps really sucks and also not sure if its really worth checking out. I do think its interesting to think about the representations of children and aliens, in the context of E.T. and the culture of the time. Not sure if that should have any bearing on my decision though.
Coconuts definitely sucks and I think it might also be worth checking out, I haven't decided yet. It is leaving a strange and striking image in my memory.
Ram It does not suck in my opinion and I also cannot recommend the game.
Lost Luggage is being considered. I think it will probably end up on the list.
I'm having a hard time getting into Slot Racers or Demolition Herby. Definitely possible they both suck.
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I discovered some other games in this hunt that I'm really excited about. The main one is Return of the Jedi: Death Star Battle. The strange divided screen setups, interesting gameplay and amazing wierd sounds are definitely worth checking out. .. The other games are Snoopy vs Red Baron and Wall Defender, which I haven't figured out yet but looks interesting.
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Post by TrekMD on May 26, 2016 21:58:49 GMT -5
I am one of those who likes ET and the fixed version is definitely worth checking out as it fixes many of the issues people had with the game as it was.
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Post by VectorX on May 26, 2016 23:19:45 GMT -5
8. Spacechase The game is way too repetitive and basic to deny that it sucks. Apollo wasn't a very good video game company. Not much of a footnote in the history of the 2600 library. The game has a really interesting and unique background scrolling which is marginally effective. I also enjoy some of the simple monochrome enemy sprites quite a bit and consider them exceptionally well designed. Yeah, I borrowed that from a friend back in the day. The difficulty level doesn't get any harder. Plus moving your ship horizontally *and* vertically was a little different back then. That and the scrolling landscapes made it a little different but still didn't help the game that much. I'm not sure yet if Cosmic Creeps really sucks Ram It does not suck in my opinion I liked both games, never said they sucked. Coconuts definitely sucks and I think it might also be worth checking out, I haven't decided yet. The graphics were really great at the time. I kind of looked at Telesys as to being "Imagic Jr." back then because of that. They didn't come out with a lot of good twitch games though, unlike Imagic (plus they hardly made any games at all before dying!). Lost Luggage is being considered. Yeah, you come out with a Kaboom! clone but it isn't as good? The only thing that sold it was your underwear being scattered about for everyone to see when you screwed up. That, and the plane(s?) taking off in the background was a nice touch. I discovered some other games in this hunt that I'm really excited about. The main one is Return of the Jedi: Death Star Battle. The strange divided screen setups, interesting gameplay and amazing wierd sounds are definitely worth checking out. Plus it has very little to do with the movie! One of the games I played out in the day but I don't go back to nowadays at all. Not that great a game.
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Post by gliptitude on May 27, 2016 0:04:52 GMT -5
Well i guess all the information started to meld together as I got into my search, and i got a little caught up in my "sucks but worth checking out" idea. Telesys does seem like an interesting company that could've been more prolific if given more time. It doesn't seem like any one of their individual games really put it all together though.
The Jedi Death Star game wasn't one I was considering as potentially bad, and I do think it's pretty good. I've played it some more now and the sound effects are really blowing my mind. I turned the volume up pretty high for the last couple games. There are crazy sounds in every part of the game but my favorite is after you shoot the Death Star and it has turned red, when you have to dodge the red (circles) until the Death Star finally explodes. The sound (music?) during that phase is some electronic helter skelter that I really like. .. I'm not sure how much time i can spend with this game, but that goes for a lot of my favorites as well.
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Post by VectorX on May 27, 2016 8:25:55 GMT -5
Telesys does seem like an interesting company that could've been more prolific if given more time. Yeah, especially since they were going to branch out into computer games originally, but the crash ended all that. I was really curious as to what they were planning with the much more powerful than the 2600 computers at the time. I'm sure it would've been exciting. It doesn't seem like any one of their individual games really put it all together though. Yeah, as the basic gameplay of Stargunner is pretty much a watered down Defender, D. Herby is a sped-up Amidar, Coconuts is Kaboom! in reverse, etc. Not much originality there, except for C. Creeps, and I'll agree there was nothing totally spectacular with what they released, but their stuff was interesting nonetheless, in my opinion. I've played it some more now and the sound effects are really blowing my mind. Yeah, like the R2-D2-type sounds you'll hear when you warp to the Death Star and hold the joystick up (I think that's what you have to do) and the death ray especially sounded cool. I thought it and the Death Star looked fairly good on the first screen too, graphics-wise. Up close in the second screen though, not so much.
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Post by gliptitude on Oct 20, 2016 20:03:48 GMT -5
Adding a game. 9. Fire Fly Does it suck? This guy thinks that it does more than any other game for the system: www.deafsparrow.com/2014/03/21/top-10-worst-atari-2600-games/I can't say I agree with this person's appraisal. The music is obnoxious and unrelenting, but I think also appropriate. It seems to have a spinning geometric quality to it which does remind me of fire flies and summer and being a kid. I totally disagree that the player sprite is "[easily the worst]" for the system, and in fact I think it is a WONDERFUL sprite. As a game there is not a very engaging challenge, but there is a curious sequence to it which I enjoy. I'm still not sure how the first screen works, but you can't shoot in this screen and there is a strange character sliding around at the bottom. This character has dust or glitter or something flying around him in a strange fluctuating pattern. It is bizarre and visually interesting. Interacting with him is also interesting and still a mystery to me. .. Moving to the next screen commences a more routine shooting game. Shooting the enemy yields a different treasure in each screen. .. There is a smiley face at the top and a row of flowers(?) at the bottom of every screen. I can't remember now what lead me to this game a few days ago. But I know that the title immediately evoked an intriguing idea and image in my mind. For me it delivers on those expectations and there is something poetic about it. The clumsiness of it contributes significantly to its charm and curiosity and the game is not without a few elegant touches. This game suck good!
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Post by gliptitude on Oct 20, 2016 20:12:13 GMT -5
.. I no longer consider Frankenstein's Monster worthy of the list. It just doesn't suck. I guess I'll replace it with Coconuts.
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Post by VectorX on Oct 20, 2016 20:28:05 GMT -5
Due to part of it being like Pitfall!, yeah, F. Monster is actually a good game. Too bad Data Age couldn't do that with more of their games, they weren't much of a company. I've heard it pretty much does! As a game there is not a very engaging challenge, but there is a curious sequence to it which I enjoy. I'm still not sure how the first screen works, but you can't shoot in this screen and there is a strange character sliding around at the bottom. This character has dust or glitter or something flying around him in a strange fluctuating pattern. It is bizarre and visually interesting. Interacting with him is also interesting and still a mystery to me. You can read its instructions here: atariage.com/manual_html_page.php?SoftwareLabelID=178It doesn't make any sense to me, but maybe it'll help: The first challenge is to rescue the pixy. While appearing easy, be cautius of the enemy bee. He is very good at determining where you are and his sting is deadly. Should you survive and rescue the pixy, you are faced with the flaming pumpkin. He is so hot that merely touching him will be fatal.Huh?
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Post by gliptitude on Oct 20, 2016 21:42:37 GMT -5
Yes the pixie interaction is very strange though. First off, it is optional. You can just move to the next screen and skip it. Also if you try to catch it but get stung you don't immediately die and it is possible to stay alive long enough to move to the next screen, and even shoot a bullet there. .. When you do "rescue the pixie" the bees(?) continue to buzz around at the bottom and move as if they were still swarming the moving pixie. .. The pixie's movement patterns ARE pretty dynamic and there does appear to be some effective AI to it.
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Post by VectorX on Oct 20, 2016 22:54:29 GMT -5
First off, it is optional. You can just move to the next screen and skip it. Yeah, it sounded like you could when you first posted about it but I looked at the instructions to see if there was any bonus to it if you accomplished whatever it was you needed to do. It doesn't really sound like it. Oh, and another Data East one you should check out is Airlock. I have an old Joystik magazine where they reviewed it, knew it was crap, but still got it at a resale shop years later...for 50 cents It's worth checking out due to the different premise of the game, but blah execution. First off, there's not many 2600 games involving subs. Gameplay's different too, as you're on the bottom level of a sub. You have to jump a couple of barriers on each level, grab a key, avoid a runaway torpedo, and make it to the lift to be taken to the next level...in the very difficult 10 seconds per level to do all that. Problem is the game's pretty hard, movement and jumps are difficult and it's not fun at all. Still different though, as it fulfills your criteria.
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