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Post by Mayhem on Sept 17, 2016 19:04:45 GMT -5
I take it that's because USB can't supply anywhere near as much power as the device needs to be kept running just for the purpose of being powered on?
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Post by bob on Sept 17, 2016 19:58:59 GMT -5
I take it that's because USB can't supply anywhere near as much power as the device needs to be kept running just for the purpose of being powered on? I'm tempted to say "yes", because the truth is more embarrassing. To allow the SmartCart to be powered by USB, I would've had to add code to negotiate more current from the PC, route the USB's power through the SmartCart's voltage regulator, add some diodes to isolate the USB's power from the Vectrex's power, and fit the traces for all this on a board that is already crowded with circuits. To translate that into English for the non-technical people: I was too lazy. ;-) I justified my laziness to myself with the argument that the SmartCart really isn't very useful without the Vectrex. - Bob
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Post by VECTREXER on Sept 19, 2016 1:18:47 GMT -5
So for Rev2 of the Vectrex32 board: - Allow for USB Power.
- Allow for a battery plug to be use with a rechargeable pack. Charge by the Vectrex, USB, or both.
- Allow for unplugged operation. Used with battery power to allow operate independent of the Vectrex. For blinking lights or to display high scores for the currently loaded game on a LED/LCD/e-Ink display. Or for Vectrex32 to be a bot when connected to the bot/drone frame add-on accessory for Vectrex32.
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Post by hcmffm on Sept 19, 2016 3:37:10 GMT -5
For me it would be most important to have a development environment without the Vectrex and without the Vectrex32. Developing a game takes many hours and I wouldn't want the Vectrex be powered on all the time. And my PC and my Vectrexes are in different rooms, anyway.
Just my 2 cents... ...not sure how important this is to real developers.
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Post by Mayhem on Sept 19, 2016 4:35:51 GMT -5
That was partly my thought. That it would be nice to perhaps develop and then transfer without having the need to be plugged into the Vectrex.
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Post by 50tbrd on Sept 19, 2016 12:30:30 GMT -5
If you are looking to make revisions to the board, I would examine how the cartridge seats. I think the contacts do not insert as much as the original PCB (perhaps by a little more than a millimeter).
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Post by bob on Sept 19, 2016 12:41:34 GMT -5
Thank you for the suggestion.
- Bob
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Post by ledzep on Sept 27, 2016 2:11:24 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this cart (as in, I want one when I can cobble together the money for one) but one thing that bothers me is the fact that you can't offer physical games for it (if I understand the process correctly), all the games would be just files run off of a computer that's USB-connected to the cart, which is in the Vectrex cartridge slot, yes? Initially I was thinking it would be cool if it was redesigned as a piggyback cart, sort of like the 2600 adapter for the Atari 5200. But that would be very expensive and probably tough on that cartridge slot, too (the Atari adapters worked better because they were aimed up so the weight pushed into the slot itself). From what I've read the cart doesn't get power from the USB slot but from the Vectrex itself, yes? So, my suggestions would be -
1) Modify the board edge so that it seats deeper into the Vectrex cart slot since that seems to be an issue for some people who own it,
2) Either through the USB port or through a second port added to newer versions, allow for a separate cartridge reader expansion peripheral to be plugged into the Vectrex32 using a cable so that people could sell/trade new cartridge-based games separately from loading programs onto it from a PC through the USB cable. It would be cool if the cartridge reader would accept Vectrex-style cartridges for consistency with the classic games (and boxes and overlays) but whatever cartridge or possibly a Nintendo DS cart could be used would work, just so long as physical games could be made and sold/traded.
3) Further to #2, if the external cartridge reader accepted Vectrex-style carts then it could also, probably via a switch, allow original Vectrex carts to play on the Vectrex without having to unplug the Vectrex32. This would only make sense if there was an option to have Vectrex-style carts that would have enough storage to hold the much larger games that the Vectrex32 could read. Since there's already a source for the cartridge shells and bare boards that would seem to be the most straightforward, and true to the original, option.
As it stands now the potential Vectrex32 games are all on one giant "cartridge", that being a PC or laptop. Since the computer doesn't supply the power then a little external cart reader might be a cool way to allow for new, larger and more complex Vectrex games to be created that could come packaged with overlays and detailed manuals... and boxes. And that would be more sales for Bob, too.
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Post by bob on Sept 27, 2016 7:19:40 GMT -5
ledzep, you might be misunderstanding how the SmartCart works. The SmartCart has a USB drive on it. So to put a game on the SmartCart, you connect it to a PC via USB and drag the BASIC game onto the SmartCart drive. You can then unplug the SmartCart from the PC and play the game on the Vectrex/SmartCart combination.
The SmartCart comes with a program that displays a menu of all the BASIC programs on the SmartCart drive. So using the Vectrex, without any PC connection, you can select the game you want to play and run it.
So the SmartCart behaves, in that respect, like a multi-cart.
- Bob
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Post by ledzep on Sept 27, 2016 18:43:33 GMT -5
ledzep, you might be misunderstanding how the SmartCart works. The SmartCart has a USB drive on it. So to put a game on the SmartCart, you connect it to a PC via USB and drag the BASIC game onto the SmartCart drive. You can then unplug the SmartCart from the PC and play the game on the Vectrex/SmartCart combination. The SmartCart comes with a program that displays a menu of all the BASIC programs on the SmartCart drive. So using the Vectrex, without any PC connection, you can select the game you want to play and run it. So the SmartCart behaves, in that respect, like a multi-cart. - Bob Ah, well thanks for the explanation, that helps. Would it still be possible to design an external cart reader that would plug into the USB port (even if it might require a minimal amount of reprogramming of the SmartCart itself) so that the SmartCart would play whatever game was on the cart in the external cart reader directly? Like, the plugged-in cart would show up on the SmartCart menu displayed on the Vectrex along with any other games already loaded onto the SmartCart via the normal drag/drop way? That would achieve the same goal of allowing for games to be sold/traded/packaged on physical media that the SmartCart could read and load. I'm just trying to think of a way for the homebrew scene as it normally operates (physical games released, some in complete packaging, some just bare carts, with the option of using an overlay if one is designed and, even better, reproduced) to be taken advantage of by the SmartCart community. I think it would promote more homebrew production for the SmartCart because many collectors prefer more than a simple file (or ROM download), even if others don't. This way the SmartCart can use both avenues but people who would want the whole (possibly limited edition) package would be able to choose that version, even if it costs more. I know I'm one of those that will pay extra for the box/manual/overlay/cart, the NOX/Death Chase homebrew release is one of my recent favorites for its completeness and quality. And it's a good game, but it would be a good game as a simple program file, too, though I wouldn't have paid as much for just a file.
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Post by bob on Sept 27, 2016 19:04:40 GMT -5
The USB plug on the SmartCart is a mini-B; it doesn't allow a USB thumb drive or any other device to be plugged in.
I'm surprised at how many people have asked for a cartridge that plugs into the SmartCart. I guess people are looking for the same tactile experience that cartridges have. However, my focus for now is the gaming experience.
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Post by gliptitude on Sept 27, 2016 19:41:05 GMT -5
The lack of physical media was an immediately noticeable difference between this platform and what otherwise exists for the Vectrex.
.. I don't know what a full game program written in GSBASIC would amount to, in terms of length as text. But it might be cool if somebody distributed their finished program EXCLUSIVELY in physical printed form, in a nicely bound mini-book. The user would manually enter the program on his PC/SmartCart, reading from the book. .. For me that would be a cool educational experience. The physical printing would force a final version of the game and it would also provide the artifact for the collectors.
There could be other physical elements to complete a game, if a game really depended on an overlay or if it was designed to use a special controller or other hardware.
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Post by bob on Sept 27, 2016 21:07:49 GMT -5
But it might be cool if somebody distributed their finished program EXCLUSIVELY in physical printed form, in a nicely bound mini-book. The user would manually enter the program on his PC/SmartCart, reading from the book. Maybe you could buy old copies of Creative Computing and Dr. Dobbs Journal on eBay. :-) - Bob
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Post by hcmffm on Sept 28, 2016 3:50:14 GMT -5
... .. I don't know what a full game program written in GSBASIC would amount to, in terms of length as text. But it might be cool if somebody distributed their finished program EXCLUSIVELY in physical printed form, in a nicely bound mini-book. The user would manually enter the program on his PC/SmartCart, reading from the book. .. For me that would be a cool educational experience. The physical printing would force a final version of the game and it would also provide the artifact for the collectors. Yes, excellent idea! Like back in the old days of homecomputers and homecomputer journals. I'd prefer typing in hexcode to get the real retro feeling. Just make sure that the numbers are printed a bit larger - those juvenile nerds back from 1984 are about 50 years old, now, most of 'em wearing glasses. > Page 001/241 > #000001 90 F4 4F 82 40 36 BD 09 9D 18 CA 08 5A 81 F8 D9 38 DD 09 31 90 > #000002 DE 7F AD CB 7C 0B 25 A7 43 5C A7 14 25 23 5E 76 78 0C 6C 15 BA > #000003 D7 6D 0B 0A 20 C6 04 D1 E4 56 94 09 AD C3 4C B5 57 4F E6 A9 9B > #000004 B3 8A B4 65 94 B9 74 69 2D D1 72 93 16 18 16 B7 EB 66 C4 CE 96 > #000005 65 A0 7A F9 94 D6 E4 4E 23 45 CC A9 28 E5 38 99 4B 7F 09 81 15 > #000006 B5 52 35 D7 0A E2 6B 91 0C EB 17 19 E7 4C 54 05 04 15 67 B4 5B > #000007 31 9D 31 0C F1 8F 71 CD 4E CC 16 A7 36 20 7B 0A F3 9B D9 CB 91 > #000008 4C 02 13 36 37 E6 73 0F FD BB 1D 20 D2 FA 3D E3 AC 7E A0 3D 12 > #000009 16 7C 96 1A 37 69 10 BF 53 37 01 3A 65 68 8C C8 58 87 15 14 9D > #000010 D2 DB AD A5 CC 23 43 88 4F 4B C6 4C 88 A4 57 60 5B 8B 0A 72 B2 > #000011 72 33 86 29 92 69 A1 64 7C 20 6E DB 78 32 78 FD 05 98 F1 EB 9A > #000012 1D 09 0F A5 1B 3A 25 AA B2 5A 72 16 9D 99 8A 7C 3E 05 5E 67 65 > #000013 82 4E 4A D5 C7 04 DC DF FE DA 70 3A 73 35 DC 8A F9 1B 90 18 50 > #000014 A9 51 8B D1 D0 9E 8D D6 89 2B F8 3D 7F A5 D9 B5 35 BD 4D D3 50 > #000015 10 83 EE 4E 8E 19 D0 40 91 63 97 AC 48 51 94 4E 1D 98 4A 59 0C > #000016 3B 92 91 BD 43 96 C4 0B 24 C4 90 CE 2A 9C 9E DE DB 25 28 01 E5 > #000017 63 AF 3F 33 04 29 4B 94 84 F2 2D 54 17 E8 B6 97 BE 04 FB CA 05 > #000018 EE CE 63 C3 59 21 24 1A D7 04 C3 09 D7 79 66 76 B4 5E D4 F9 A8 > #000019 E3 A6 CE B9 F4 E8 32 1B C1 52 E9 7F 44 74 B6 C3 AA 38 E4 93 DE > #000020 51 BB 96 2B 2C 1E 14 A8 9E BC AE 71 46 0C 48 BB 8B 55 4C C0 20 > #000021 95 97 94 BF AA 2F 9E 4C D7 BD C3 D2 B0 11 A8 BB 20 BC 4F 14 11 > #000022 3A 1C 96 05 C8 3F B4 7C DA 1C 59 6E 79 E2 49 C2 B3 31 A2 36 6B > #000023 17 8C 49 9C 25 66 FF B1 A5 9A 5D 9F 07 CC 1C 8D A4 B6 C9 1B 1B > #000024 40 86 59 92 75 72 B2 C6 80 47 F1 0F A0 AC 4B E6 62 B1 56 E0 46 > #000025 B2 F0 87 2B 67 BC 5F B6 72 21 EE 29 31 9C B8 78 DE 6F 82 29 3C > #000026 A2 CD 65 0D 82 3E F1 A8 EF 43 7A 77 B3 E0 E7 48 A8 72 08 EB 51 > #000027 EC 48 C5 45 B9 A6 4B F0 C9 C2 4B A2 A7 1D BE 85 31 69 19 A1 22 > #000028 6A DD 0A 45 45 E4 86 53 E0 37 F0 47 C1 64 D8 B7 23 ED C7 AE BD > #000029 B6 36 DF FD 05 88 35 ED 48 CF A1 5C 1A 2B 0B 87 8F A9 35 91 CA > #000030 20 43 09 54 5A 08 42 06 0A 85 10 D1 A2 AB 39 15 CE 8B B1 58 8E > #000031 04 72 61 58 55 E3 7D 35 4B 40 B8 36 25 32 E7 3F DE 48 EC FB 93 > #000032 5E E2 38 5E 34 33 7D 5A 19 BF 31 9F 11 27 D7 78 BC E2 8F DB 51 > #000033 56 77 31 A2 52 8A 7F 59 C2 D0 1C 8B 1C 1F 1C 13 A2 F8 E4 5A 7F > #000034 1D 96 7D 7F EA A8 26 11 CB 28 D7 E7 05 9A 8C C8 B0 2E D8 ED EB > #000035 43 0B A2 88 38 2A A6 72 7D 96 FE 55 4E D9 AD C6 28 76 5F 4C 66 > #000036 37 9F 35 A5 15 9F D3 1E EB 70 61 6D 03 D9 D9 F8 9C 74 31 4B 43 > #000037 6E 3E D9 6A F5 B0 3C FE D0 36 E9 A5 C3 5B 96 9F 09 5A 95 D3 DF > #000038 96 CE C5 F5 46 80 CE 4E 78 AF 75 13 0B 9C 74 AC FA 2A D4 E8 EE > #000039 E5 55 A6 8B A0 40 4C 57 E6 D7 2E BE 89 87 4A 02 32 D4 7B 7A B0 > #000040 8E 33 01 BC 4A F5 C9 23 5B BB 87 9E 9A 6C 29 17 7B 9A 1E 35 49 > #000041 B2 1E 02 9C EC 52 33 12 2C 7D DF 93 01 63 8B 11 25 61 6E B7 8D > #000042 66 48 A9 6A 59 20 54 48 E4 D7 4E DE D8 7E 29 3E 99 E7 BB B7 B3 > #000043 23 19 D0 75 4F 2D 7F 26 4D 4D A1 BE 28 B5 C3 7F 1F 2F 89 FC 0E > #000044 2A A7 41 11 70 75 DB 53 14 4F 71 0E 13 D5 6C 2B A1 17 2C F4 3F > #000045 4C C4 90 24 DC AF 38 31 93 9A FF 10 70 AD 2F D7 D6 7D F9 51 29 > #000046 FC A5 F5 54 7B 73 E3 61 B7 C8 C3 B2 DB A6 18 D7 4D AD BD C8 F4 > #000047 FE 75 8D 30 FA 71 93 B2 EE C5 98 76 5B E4 81 07 7B 24 82 1B DD > #000048 3C 27 17 CC D5 0A 7C C5 E7 4E 6B 30 6D 02 3D A9 92 00 CF 77 A5 > #000049 D0 34 34 22 AF 23 57 9B CD 8C 86 DF DF CD 18 91 A9 92 C2 03 67 > #000050 25 07 3B 54 EA 9E 7E 53 F7 D7 25 25 7A 96 05 04 34 6B 9A 67 4D
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Post by gliptitude on Sept 28, 2016 4:15:00 GMT -5
... .. I don't know what a full game program written in GSBASIC would amount to, in terms of length as text. But it might be cool if somebody distributed their finished program EXCLUSIVELY in physical printed form, in a nicely bound mini-book. The user would manually enter the program on his PC/SmartCart, reading from the book. .. For me that would be a cool educational experience. The physical printing would force a final version of the game and it would also provide the artifact for the collectors. Yes, excellent idea! Like back in the old days of homecomputers and homecomputer journals. I'd prefer typing in hexcode to get the real retro feeling. Just make sure that the numbers are printed a bit larger - those juvenile nerds back from 1984 are about 50 years old, now, most of 'em wearing glasses. > Page 001/241 > #000001 90 F4 4F 82 40 36 BD 09 9D 18 CA 08 5A 81 F8 D9 38 DD 09 31 90 > #000002 DE 7F AD CB 7C 0B 25 A7 43 5C A7 14 25 23 5E 76 78 0C 6C 15 BA > #000003 D7 6D 0B 0A 20 C6 04 D1 E4 56 94 09 AD C3 4C B5 57 4F E6 A9 9B > #000004 B3 8A B4 65 94 B9 74 69 2D D1 72 93 16 18 16 B7 EB 66 C4 CE 96 > #000005 65 A0 7A F9 94 D6 E4 4E 23 45 CC A9 28 E5 38 99 4B 7F 09 81 15 > #000006 B5 52 35 D7 0A E2 6B 91 0C EB 17 19 E7 4C 54 05 04 15 67 B4 5B > #000007 31 9D 31 0C F1 8F 71 CD 4E CC 16 A7 36 20 7B 0A F3 9B D9 CB 91 > #000008 4C 02 13 36 37 E6 73 0F FD BB 1D 20 D2 FA 3D E3 AC 7E A0 3D 12 > #000009 16 7C 96 1A 37 69 10 BF 53 37 01 3A 65 68 8C C8 58 87 15 14 9D > #000010 D2 DB AD A5 CC 23 43 88 4F 4B C6 4C 88 A4 57 60 5B 8B 0A 72 B2 > #000011 72 33 86 29 92 69 A1 64 7C 20 6E DB 78 32 78 FD 05 98 F1 EB 9A > #000012 1D 09 0F A5 1B 3A 25 AA B2 5A 72 16 9D 99 8A 7C 3E 05 5E 67 65 > #000013 82 4E 4A D5 C7 04 DC DF FE DA 70 3A 73 35 DC 8A F9 1B 90 18 50 > #000014 A9 51 8B D1 D0 9E 8D D6 89 2B F8 3D 7F A5 D9 B5 35 BD 4D D3 50 > #000015 10 83 EE 4E 8E 19 D0 40 91 63 97 AC 48 51 94 4E 1D 98 4A 59 0C > #000016 3B 92 91 BD 43 96 C4 0B 24 C4 90 CE 2A 9C 9E DE DB 25 28 01 E5 > #000017 63 AF 3F 33 04 29 4B 94 84 F2 2D 54 17 E8 B6 97 BE 04 FB CA 05 > #000018 EE CE 63 C3 59 21 24 1A D7 04 C3 09 D7 79 66 76 B4 5E D4 F9 A8 > #000019 E3 A6 CE B9 F4 E8 32 1B C1 52 E9 7F 44 74 B6 C3 AA 38 E4 93 DE > #000020 51 BB 96 2B 2C 1E 14 A8 9E BC AE 71 46 0C 48 BB 8B 55 4C C0 20 > #000021 95 97 94 BF AA 2F 9E 4C D7 BD C3 D2 B0 11 A8 BB 20 BC 4F 14 11 > #000022 3A 1C 96 05 C8 3F B4 7C DA 1C 59 6E 79 E2 49 C2 B3 31 A2 36 6B > #000023 17 8C 49 9C 25 66 FF B1 A5 9A 5D 9F 07 CC 1C 8D A4 B6 C9 1B 1B > #000024 40 86 59 92 75 72 B2 C6 80 47 F1 0F A0 AC 4B E6 62 B1 56 E0 46 > #000025 B2 F0 87 2B 67 BC 5F B6 72 21 EE 29 31 9C B8 78 DE 6F 82 29 3C > #000026 A2 CD 65 0D 82 3E F1 A8 EF 43 7A 77 B3 E0 E7 48 A8 72 08 EB 51 > #000027 EC 48 C5 45 B9 A6 4B F0 C9 C2 4B A2 A7 1D BE 85 31 69 19 A1 22 > #000028 6A DD 0A 45 45 E4 86 53 E0 37 F0 47 C1 64 D8 B7 23 ED C7 AE BD > #000029 B6 36 DF FD 05 88 35 ED 48 CF A1 5C 1A 2B 0B 87 8F A9 35 91 CA > #000030 20 43 09 54 5A 08 42 06 0A 85 10 D1 A2 AB 39 15 CE 8B B1 58 8E > #000031 04 72 61 58 55 E3 7D 35 4B 40 B8 36 25 32 E7 3F DE 48 EC FB 93 > #000032 5E E2 38 5E 34 33 7D 5A 19 BF 31 9F 11 27 D7 78 BC E2 8F DB 51 > #000033 56 77 31 A2 52 8A 7F 59 C2 D0 1C 8B 1C 1F 1C 13 A2 F8 E4 5A 7F > #000034 1D 96 7D 7F EA A8 26 11 CB 28 D7 E7 05 9A 8C C8 B0 2E D8 ED EB > #000035 43 0B A2 88 38 2A A6 72 7D 96 FE 55 4E D9 AD C6 28 76 5F 4C 66 > #000036 37 9F 35 A5 15 9F D3 1E EB 70 61 6D 03 D9 D9 F8 9C 74 31 4B 43 > #000037 6E 3E D9 6A F5 B0 3C FE D0 36 E9 A5 C3 5B 96 9F 09 5A 95 D3 DF > #000038 96 CE C5 F5 46 80 CE 4E 78 AF 75 13 0B 9C 74 AC FA 2A D4 E8 EE > #000039 E5 55 A6 8B A0 40 4C 57 E6 D7 2E BE 89 87 4A 02 32 D4 7B 7A B0 > #000040 8E 33 01 BC 4A F5 C9 23 5B BB 87 9E 9A 6C 29 17 7B 9A 1E 35 49 > #000041 B2 1E 02 9C EC 52 33 12 2C 7D DF 93 01 63 8B 11 25 61 6E B7 8D > #000042 66 48 A9 6A 59 20 54 48 E4 D7 4E DE D8 7E 29 3E 99 E7 BB B7 B3 > #000043 23 19 D0 75 4F 2D 7F 26 4D 4D A1 BE 28 B5 C3 7F 1F 2F 89 FC 0E > #000044 2A A7 41 11 70 75 DB 53 14 4F 71 0E 13 D5 6C 2B A1 17 2C F4 3F > #000045 4C C4 90 24 DC AF 38 31 93 9A FF 10 70 AD 2F D7 D6 7D F9 51 29 > #000046 FC A5 F5 54 7B 73 E3 61 B7 C8 C3 B2 DB A6 18 D7 4D AD BD C8 F4 > #000047 FE 75 8D 30 FA 71 93 B2 EE C5 98 76 5B E4 81 07 7B 24 82 1B DD > #000048 3C 27 17 CC D5 0A 7C C5 E7 4E 6B 30 6D 02 3D A9 92 00 CF 77 A5 > #000049 D0 34 34 22 AF 23 57 9B CD 8C 86 DF DF CD 18 91 A9 92 C2 03 67 > #000050 25 07 3B 54 EA 9E 7E 53 F7 D7 25 25 7A 96 05 04 34 6B 9A 67 4D Well presumably a BASIC program would be more comprehensible.
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