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Vec-Man
Oct 28, 2019 7:16:07 GMT -5
Post by Peer on Oct 28, 2019 7:16:07 GMT -5
Still... If a ghost is near to you he won't catch you on a straight path - but cutting a corner, he might get you...
... hehe, and you never complained about that when you tested the game 
But yes, your observation is correct. That can happen. The simple reason is that the BIOS collision control is done by a bounding box check, and not by (a much more complicated) bounding circle check. The diagonal of the bounding box is longer than the radius of the corresponding circle. Again, I have already pondered about this, but did not try or change anything here, because nobody complained about it
Can't you just grant those poor old ghosts of the past some tiny advantage? No matter what, Vec-Man is always faster than the ghosts, and technically, he can outrun them on a stright line. The difference in speed gets ever smaller with increasing levels, but it will always be there. Just don't get too close to the ghosts...
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Vec-Man
Oct 28, 2019 10:01:51 GMT -5
Post by Malban on Oct 28, 2019 10:01:51 GMT -5
It wasn't really ment as a complaint.
Just a remark.
It's a game mechanic, not a bug IMHO. As you said, you shouldn't let them come so close to you...
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Vec-Man
Oct 28, 2019 10:59:49 GMT -5
Post by Peer on Oct 28, 2019 10:59:49 GMT -5
It wasn't really ment as a complaint. Just a remark. It's a game mechanic, not a bug IMHO. As you said, you shouldn't let them come so close to you... Don't worry, I did not perceive it as a complaint (hope you saw all the smileys). It is a very good suggestion, and I will gladly implement it. I will also have another look at the collision checks in corner cases. I am really happy about all the recent feedback, despite the (now not so cold) feature freeze. All this helps to further improve the game. Gamma testing is cool, keep 'em coming!  |
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Post by Peer on Oct 28, 2019 12:56:12 GMT -5
The new release version 2-2 with the improvements of the player's control which Malban suggested is now available for download on the Vec-Man web page Many Cheers, Peer |
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Post by D-Type on Oct 28, 2019 19:08:34 GMT -5
I just played Vec-Man once more (literally once!) and the control feels much better now, thanks for the update.
I was able to get to level 13 and can now appreciate some of the strategic elements you've added to the game. I've not figured out how the ghosts work yet, but the maximum lives per level is a nice idea and the special objects to eat and various mazes and dot patterns do mix it up a lot.
Nice game!
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Post by Peer on Oct 30, 2019 2:39:48 GMT -5
A new release version 2-3 with improved collision detection in situations where Vec-Man "goes around a corner" (as discussed in the previous posts) is now available for download on the Vec-Man web page Many Cheers, Peer |
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Post by VectorX on Oct 30, 2019 12:30:31 GMT -5
First, congrats on (finally!) a proper follow-up to the ill-made Clean Sweep after all these years (actually the game itself was fine until you hit the later "infinity" levels where the robbers just go into little patterns and no longer chase you, which was really wrong for us advanced players). This plays more like the Odyssey 2's KC Munchkin though with the moving dots, rather than Pac-Man. Clever to have the Pac and Ms. Pac-Man music in there as well. It's also different in being a long-term playing game right off the bat, as well as obtaining (many!) extra lives, then you can lose most (or all!) during that one hard level, as you need to look around at the (odd) mazes to see which corridors could end up being nasty, if not total death traps (i. e. like the long ones with no escape tunnels and/or power pills).
Nice little surprises with the power-ups! What does the bow-tie shaped "home" one do though? For several times, it didn't seem to do anything, then at one point when I grabbed it the dots started moving.
Anyway, you should be happy with this one, even though the mazes are small, but then I assume that eliminates the flicker and/or slowdown of the game.
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Vec-Man
Oct 31, 2019 4:26:08 GMT -5
Post by Peer on Oct 31, 2019 4:26:08 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for the nice feedback
Yes, there is a trade-off between the size of the mazes and keeping the game within 50Hz. I experimented a lot here, and this is as large as it gets without risking flicker. I found out many interesting details about the BIOS routine Draw_VLp() and about scales factors and how the on-screen results of different scale factors relate to each other (its not linear). Also about whether it is more efficient to draw many vectors with a smale scale factor, or less vectors with a large scale factors. I could vastly elaborate on this, but in short, there is no general answer to this, it depends on the specific number of vectors and on the specific scale factor chosen.
Regarding your bonus-item question, well, I guess it is safe to reveal this now:
The shape of the object should remind one of a certain Mine in a certain Storm, a very "attractive" one. Once Vec-Man eats this bonus, all pills will behave in the same fashion and "home" in on you.
Many Cheers, Peer
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Vec-Man
Oct 31, 2019 4:26:24 GMT -5
Post by Malban on Oct 31, 2019 4:26:24 GMT -5
In the VectorWar thread you spoke about one final, final version. What I wouldn't mind seeing (dunno if it is sensible or possible with the current code base) - is a slight speed up of the game - not from the beginning - but as the game progresses. Dunno - perhaps every 20 or 40 levels. "Nothing" else needs to change, but from a certain level, all characters/points just move one bit faster... With that a new layer of differentiation is brought in, and a new "concentration" is needed... I don't know about the abundant lives. Yes one can get very many of them - perhaps "cap" the maximum somewhere, but overall I think the mechanic as it is, is very good. It gives meaning to chasing the ghosts. If you take that away or cripple it too much there is no reason to kill the ghosts (at least not all of them) - since you do not have another scoring system.
What <might> be possible is to reduce the duration of the pills - but IMHO only in combination with making everything faster. So that the room you can cover with a pill stays the same.... if you know what I mean.
Cheers Malban
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Vec-Man
Oct 31, 2019 4:38:33 GMT -5
Post by Peer on Oct 31, 2019 4:38:33 GMT -5
Developer's curse, software is never final
Good suggestion, thanks for that one. In fact, in the game as it is right now, everything continuously gets faster with each level, but on a logarithmic scale. The increase of speed gets less with each level, but it is still there. So you can feel or see it in the first levels, and then it gets less and less noticable in the upper levels. However, it approaches a limit, and now I conclude that this limit could be higher.
I will try something here and I send you a version within the next days.
Cheers, Peer
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Vec-Man
Oct 31, 2019 5:41:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Peer likes this
Post by D-Type on Oct 31, 2019 5:41:11 GMT -5
I still think the game is too easy to begin with.
Real Pac-man as a very occasional player, I can probably do 3 or 4 screens. A few goes on Vec-Man and I'm at 13 screens, and I could probably go much further, but sadly I can't spare the time to play it, especially in the VW.
By comparison, for example Cosmic Chasm is all over for me in a minute or two. Let's not even mention Veccy Bird :-)
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Vec-Man
Oct 31, 2019 10:39:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Peer likes this
Post by 8-Bit Waves on Oct 31, 2019 10:39:13 GMT -5
A few notes from my long play.
There are times I don't understand why I don't get an extra life when eating all the ghosts. I know activating something else while large will negate the extra life. But other times it happens as well. Is it possible for a ghost to come back after you've eaten it and before eating the others? This might be a scenario where you don't get an extra life. Also when an item is activated before turning big might screw it up? I couldn't figure it out while playing.
I like the idea of it being faster. Especially farther in.
I think one of the biggest things that makes it too easy is it doesn't feel like Vec-Man is slowing down when eating pellets. He may be but maybe not enough? You can sort of lead the ghosts around for a while until they try to trap you again. I'd look into this if you can before taking lives away.
I love the ghost AI. They seem to be able to catch me off guard and trap fairly regularly.
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Post by VectorX on Oct 31, 2019 11:53:35 GMT -5
^Yes, I'd noticed that too that at times you won't get an extra life when chomping down on all ghosts. The shape of the object should remind one of a certain Mine in a certain Storm, a very "attractive" one. Yeah, I had guessed that wasn't a coincidence/it reminded me of that  Once Vec-Man eats this bonus, all pills will behave in the same fashion and "home" in on you. I didn't really notice that, but then I've only played this game twice so far. I'll pay more attention the next time I give it a shot. |
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Post by VectorX on Oct 31, 2019 11:56:06 GMT -5
Yes one can get very many of them - perhaps "cap" the maximum somewhere, but overall I think the mechanic as it is, is very good. It gives meaning to chasing the ghosts. If you take that away or cripple it too much there is no reason to kill the ghosts (at least not all of them) - since you do not have another scoring system. Agree with both points here. And sometimes you have to let go of trying to catch all ghosts when you have to eat the power pellets just as a cover to try to get to the last dots so you can get to the next level. Also forgot to mention that I like the "sad" ghosts once you eat a power pellet, along with when they kind of zoom in at you once you eat them. |
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Post by 8-Bit Waves on Oct 31, 2019 15:04:42 GMT -5
If you are interested it looks like Pac-man stops moving for one frame when eating a pellet. If you aren't up to that (I don't blame you) then I'd make it harder to get lives. Shortening the time you have to eat the ghosts is a decent option.
I want to reiterate that the game is amazing. It is very polished and smooth running. I can't think of any 8 bit Pac-Man clones that I like better than this.
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