Vector War XI - Preparations & Discussions

[toppsikrett]

playvectrex - thats not what i meant. I try a different description of what i meant.
Of course VB does'nt auto-Center. In many Levels you need to go to the exact center position or an other exact position betwenn the shots.
In my Case, the two digital Controllers i own are Not Joysticks but Pads/Buttons for directions and (at least for me) it is easier to make a very short press for a small (exact) movement.
On the other Side, the original (or any other analogue Joystick) needs a certain travel until it reacts, until you realise it reacts you have pressed further, let loose and it needs a moment to center. You need to know very exactly at wich position of the stick the moving starts to make movement very exactly. Wich you don't need to know on a digital directions pad because you just hit a very short press.

[playvectrex]

Ah, I gotcha now.  Yeah this is why the original controller is not well suited for most games because there are like 4 original games out of 28 that use analog controls and the rest use digital.  And hyperchase is VERY sensitive to crashing the player with crusty original joysticks (most of them).  Sometimes you might need to use a different technique with the controller to get the best results as well, like pinching the stick vs. using your thumb.  So I take it you would prefer to use a gamepad or other digital controller with Vectorblade.  I would too!  It makes the game less random and more playable.

[D-Type]

New controller rule says original controller or any other controller but not several types of controllers. To clarify...can you use:

- the original controller AND one aftermarket controller
OR
- the original controller OR one aftermarket controller

If you use a digital aftermarket controller, then you can't use it to play games with analogue controls. I would have thought it most inclusive to state that you can always play with the original controller and one additional aftermarket controller, either analogue or digital, which must be declared at the start of the event.

Of course that causes the problem to decide between a VicStick and a RadPad if there is an analogue game in the tournament, but I guess that's a bit of a luxury :-)

[toppsikrett]

Sept 16, 2021 1:36:45 GMT -5 playvectrex said:

you would prefer to use a gamepad or other digital controller with Vectorblade.  I would too!.

Yes i do normally play VB with a Logitech Wingman Thunderpad. But in VW i think the skills (+perhaps luck) should decide, not the equipment ;-)

[hcmffm]

Some thoughts on the "not several types of controllers" hardware rule:

Vector War should be fun but I think the competition aspect should be still there.In a competition, advantage achieved by material/hardware is not a fair, I think. Asking all people to play with their original Vectrex controller made the world pretty simple.

I do understand if people want to use their favourite controller and I think it's o.k. to get rid of the old, strict rule. But I don't think it would fair if people played with more than one (type of) controller within a competition.

What about the following rules regarding the usage of controllers:

• People who use an analog controller other than the original Vectrex controller may not use any other controller than that - not even the original Vectrex controller.
  
  
• People who use a digital controller other than the original Vectrex controller may use the original Vectrex controller in addition for those games that require analogue control (are there any games?)

[playvectrex]

Some more thoughts, and then I bow to the Vector Gods for their ultimate decision:

- Skills should always be required for a good competition.
- Conversely, randomness in competitions should be avoided as much as possible to ensure skills matter, and games that are very random have notably been avoided for this reason.
- The Vectrex is aging and the original controls are not getting any better or cheaper with time, and they definitely contribute to increased randomness in game play.
- If we are making the rules less strict about controllers this year, it would be good to keep the rules simple.
- Using a standard Vectrex controller should always be permitted, no matter the game.
- I don't see a reason to restrict someone from using the original Vectrex controller if they also chose to use another controller (analog or digital). The only way I could see this working is per game that you stick with one controller. But honestly, why bother with that rule since everyone can chose differently and it just complicates having to report your score with your specific controller used. And then you have to go back and check for consistency throughout the competition. An open policy makes it simple.
- Being able to use another controller for me means you get to chose what works best with the game you are playing. I'm not typically going to switch once I find what works well. Games are designed differently, and one controller does not work best with all games IMO. Sometimes the Vectorcade is not the best digital controller (OMG, did I just type that? ) ... for example with Vecribbon the buttons are a little too far apart for a rhythm game that uses all buttons.
- I'm all for keeping it simple with alternative controllers. Make sure they don't have auto fire, or any kind of software enhancements like filtering or reduced scaling. Make sure the output goes full swing, which if we want to get technical is -3.2V to +3.2V.
- As long as it follows the rules above, I would vote for using whatever and however many controllers you want. It's just easier not to have to think about it, especially if you have multiple players in your household.

Try it as an experiment this year and if people are upset because Moyu, Len, Munch and VectorWolf take the top 4 spots due to their homemade controllers... perhaps Moyu, Len, Munch and VectorWolf will open up their Vectrex controllers stores afterwards, and fund their college tuitions. Win win!

[hcmffm]

Thank you, Brett for your long explanation and your thoughts. In the end it's you, i.e. the players who should be happy and satisfied with the competition and its rules. So in the end I just collect your various ideas and thoughts and try to find a good solution for most people.

Sept 16, 2021 17:15:41 GMT -5 playvectrex said:

... Being able to use another controller for me means you get to chose what works best with the game you are playing. ..

This is the problematic part: If you have a choice of 12 controllers for the Vector War you might find the best controller for each game. While other people, who own only one controller have to get along with that one controller and try to score as high as possible. The reasoning that you mention is no longer "I want to play with my favourite controller" or "I want to treat my original Vectrex controller with care and don't want to use it in a competition" anymore. From what I understand your reasoning is "I want to use my fundus of controllers to get the best score per game". In another words this means using optimum material for optimal performance which is not really fair, I think.

That's my current concern but as written above suggestions and ideas should be discussed and an overall agreement and good solution should be found. So let's see what other people think and write regarding this matter.

[VectorX]

^I think one of each should do, i. e. use an original Vectrex controller and/or digital controller, NOT a bunch for those that have many. After all, you had that rule for a few contests where *if* a person used a modern day controller we just had to say so in a post. I did that and no one had any problems with it (or maybe no one said anything otherwise ).

[8-Bit Waves]

I think we should be able to use the original controller AND the following:
Power Glove for Pole Position.
Flight stick for Scramble/Star Trek/Web Wars.
Smart trainer with Tour de France.
Game pad for KnightEx/Galaxy Wars
I'm still terrible at the Gyros so I'll leave that one up to you all.


Obviously joking.


Since multiple controllers is a concern for some, how about making it something like this:
1 original controller can always be used.
And 1 type of alternate analog controller can be used.
And 1 type of alternate digital controller can be used.

[playvectrex]

Sept 17, 2021 11:25:04 GMT -5 hcmffm said:

From what I understand your reasoning is "I want to use my fundus of controllers to get the best score per game". In another words this means using optimum material for optimal performance which is not really fair, I think.

Well that's not exactly what I meant that I'd be trying to game the system or anything with controller selection, and the controllers don't play the game for you. I was just trying to say, I'd use a controller that was suited for the game. Analog for Hyperchase, Digital for Scramble. There's not a lot of advantage between the various analog or digital controllers that I have. And as the player, you still have to press the buttons yourself and expect the Vectrex to receive them.

It sounds like newer controllers have been used in the past as well.

---

Sept 17, 2021 12:29:38 GMT -5 8-Bit Waves said:

Since multiple controllers is a concern for some, how about making it something like this:
1 original controller can always be used.
And 1 type of alternate analog controller can be used.
And 1 type of alternate digital controller can be used.

That sounds reasonable to me and is what I would like to do if it is allowed.
1 - Digital Vectorcade
1 - Analog Vectorcade
I also have Deoxit D5, Fader F5, Gold G100L coming so I can tune up my original controllers, again.

[hcmffm]

So if everyone agrees the new controller rule will be as suggested above by 8-Bit Waves:
1 original controller can always be used.
And 1 type of alternate analog controller can be used.
And 1 type of alternate digital controller can be used.

[Peer]

Many thanks for organizing and running another Vector War! I am looking forward to it, and I will join and participate.

And I will be playing with my good old and battered original controller. I like the new ones as well, and I don’t mind anyone else using them, but - for me - only playing with the original controller lets me time-travel back to 1982 and makes me feel young again

[hcmffm]

^Let's do the time warp again!

[fruktodlaren]

Greetings.
Me, Len and Moyu will participate this year again. Especially Len has been looking forward to playing. She was sad to see Tour de France instead of one of the car racing games, but I think she will learn to embrace TDF eventually too.

As for controller, I suppose we will use the Skynät prototype since the door was opened for aftermarket controllers. It has an analog joystick similar to most other aftermarket controllers and some cheap Sanwa knockoffs for buttons. Nothing special really.

Not sure if people want to see a return of that prize or not, but I have prepared a wooden spoon for this years competition too if there is interest of seeing that travesty again. As for what main prize I will donate to the prize table, I am not sure yet, but I am leaning towards a blank aluminium shell or a shell engraved for Ralf's and Jason's supermulticart, as I have recently finished a label engraving design for that one that I am particularly proud of.

[Peer]

Sept 22, 2021 14:51:12 GMT -5 hcmffm said:

^Let's do the time warp again!

... It's just a jump to the left!