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Post by xefned on Nov 25, 2013 17:38:42 GMT -5
Cool, I've been experimenting with overlays too. We'll have to share notes. My first batch of three look pretty good for being simple laminated color laser prints. But when I trim them, they delaminate. Also my cutting is unprofessional. Do you have any high-quality graphic files? Most of the ones I've found are low-res. But the ones at computer-classics.de look really good when printed. |
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Post by gliptitude on Nov 26, 2013 1:22:22 GMT -5
My interest is exclusively in designing and producing original overlays, so I have never tried to sort through files of the old games.
I think that the ideal graphic file would be a VECTOR format, such as that produced by Adobe Illustrator. In order to get such a file of an old Vectrex overlay, one would basically have to trace and re-draft the entire thing in Illustrator, (which is not necessarily that difficult). You would get the basic layout from a photo scan, but you would really be determining the geometric shapes in a calculated way, for symmetry etc. This resulting layout would be more authoritative, (and less literal and artifact ridden), than a bitmap image.
This is NOT how I did my WotW prototype or my other (original concept) Vectrex overlay on youtube, because I do not know how to use those programs. But I know that this IS how Vectrexmad did his Pole Position and Minestorm reproductions.
Active member 50tbrd is adept at vector drafting, and seems eager to contribute to the Vectrex scene. He may have an interest in producing vector files of various classic overlays, for the purpose of reproduction.
For your purposes, this is probably not necessary and the quality scans that you are seeking will probably be more accessible and much easier for you to mess with.
I have more notes to share, but would rather do so in a dedicated thread on the subject. Perhaps when I get my thoughts together I will start one. Or if you are motivated to do so, you can start it instead.
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Post by xefned on Nov 26, 2013 13:56:27 GMT -5
You're right. Pixelated bitmapped overlays covering games on the world's only vector gaming system is a travesty!  Thanks for the tip. I hadn't thought to used the low-quality scans I have to reproduce them as vector files. I'll give it a try. And start that thread if it's at all successful. |
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Post by gliptitude on Jan 12, 2014 17:55:18 GMT -5
I finally tried out another place in Cincinnati that I've been trying to see ever since i heard about it, a month or two ago. The name of this place is THE PLACE and it's awesome!
The space has a great authentic arcade feel, about the size of a pizza joint and crammed with cabinets, all old and seemingly chosen and organized with love. Highlights include Star Wars, Space Duel, Tempest, Wizard of Wor and Tron.
They have an area dedicated to consoles which is very well maintained, easy to use and manages to entirely avoid disrupting the arcade feel of the place.
The collection seems to fluctuate some, but it seems like the determining factor is what the owner wants to see in his arcade, as opposed to him selling off the most valuable stuff. .. He keeps a good up to date list of the lineup on his website.
Lots of fun!
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Post by VectorX on Jan 12, 2014 18:03:39 GMT -5
Sounds good indeed! Star Wars, Space Duel, Tempest Had you played these before? |
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Post by gliptitude on Jan 13, 2014 17:52:13 GMT -5
Have played Tempest before. Never played the other two, except in emulation on computer.
.. I think I am resolved at this point in my preference for BW vectors. I guess there is some debate about this, how a color vector works and what it is. So far the ones I have seen look rasterized. You can see an array of horizontal and vertical lines and the vectors are not near as smooth as on Vectrex, or those I have seen in Solar Quest and Asteroids. Honestly the Atari color vectors look smoother on my iPad. ... There were some cool special effects in Star Wars though, where fire balls get super bright and all the lines bleed out and blur together.
Don't mean to detract from this arcade though. It's awesome.
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Post by VectorX on Jan 13, 2014 18:40:54 GMT -5
.. I think I am resolved at this point in my preference for BW vectors. I guess there is some debate about this, how a color vector works and what it is. So far the ones I have seen look rasterized. They could be raster monitors. There's not many working vector monitors left in the wild, I'm sure. |
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Post by gliptitude on Jan 15, 2014 16:56:03 GMT -5
.. I think I am resolved at this point in my preference for BW vectors. I guess there is some debate about this, how a color vector works and what it is. So far the ones I have seen look rasterized. They could be raster monitors. There's not many working vector monitors left in the wild, I'm sure. I am near certain they were vector monitors and that that is just how color (atari) vectors work. ... I was trying to find and link the KLOV forum thread where people were passionately debating this, but couldnt find it. .. Something beyond my technical comprehension, involving color masks or something like that. |
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Post by celtroniclabs on Jan 18, 2014 21:24:12 GMT -5
They could be raster monitors. There's not many working vector monitors left in the wild, I'm sure. I am near certain they were vector monitors and that that is just how color (atari) vectors work. ... I was trying to find and link the KLOV forum thread where people were passionately debating this, but couldnt find it. .. Something beyond my technical comprehension, involving color masks or something like that. It would be interesting to check out the thread you are referring to. Based upon my recent Asteroids cabinet playing experience and that article written by the ex-Atari employee ( Whom I mentioned elsewhere on this site), Atari's first 3 vector games did have stair-stepped vector lines. The guy seemed to indicate that starting with Battlezone, the vector generator was changed making the lines visibly smoother. I would presume, that a similar analog vector generator was used for their color games. I have not seen a working Atari color vector cabinet, in person, in over 2 decades, so I really don't remember what they looked like, in regards to line smoothness.. Atari named their whole vector system "Quadrascan" and then "Color Quadrascan" (first used in Tempest), for the color cabinets. This info is from Atari themselves (September 24, 1981, about a month before Tempest was released): "Both Quadrascan systems use the same technology, except for the Z amplifier. Since the color picture tube contains three color beams (red, green and blue), three Z amplifiers are used to control each beam individually. The Quadrascan color monitor system can produce a great number of colors in varying intensities." |
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Post by gliptitude on Jan 20, 2014 15:03:56 GMT -5
I was hoping you would weigh in celtroniclabs. I found the klov article, which is not meant to be this topic, but becomes so on the first page after only a few posts: forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=289684&highlight=Color+mask.. I would be interested to hear your opinions on the debate. .. I've been back to the arcade and am now certain the color machines i saw were stock vector monitors. I even saw one get installed and tested after repair. .. Like i think i said before, there were some effects and artifacts in Star Wars that pretty much proved it was vector, even though the lines in most cases looked rasterized. Also got my Asteroids stuff repaired and up and running! Mr. Salay here in Cincinnati did a great job for a great price. .. I'm not sure where you are located celtroniclabs, but I have recently tracked down some pretty experienced vector folks in my area, as well as an assortment of cabinets that can be seen. Mostly atari stuff, but not exclusively. |
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Post by VectorX on Jan 20, 2014 15:57:20 GMT -5
.. I'm not sure where you are located celtroniclabs, but I have recently tracked down some pretty experienced vector folks in my area, as well as an assortment of cabinets that can be seen. Mostly atari stuff, but not exclusively. Do tell!! |
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Post by gliptitude on Jan 22, 2014 15:39:47 GMT -5
Well the "cabinets that can be seen" have not been seen by me and they are not currently displayed in public. ..
The guy who fixed my stuff specializes in atari vector boards. When i went to meet him at the arcade a long time associate of his unexpectedly showed up and I talked to him about his interests and his work.
He has been working on cabinets for over 10 years, with a particular interest in vectors. .. He has since moved more towards pinballs as far as his business goes. But he says he has held on to all his vector games and claims to have a garage full. I just met the guy and it was a complicated conversation, so I didnt get any hard details. Just that they are not all Atari and that he has worked on cinematronics and sega monitors before and that HE HAD RECENTLY OFFERED TO PUT SOME OF HIS CABS IN THE OTHER GUY'S ARCADE, but the arcade guy didn't have room for them or something.
His name was Matt and he was a nice guy who seemed to have some intellectual interest in vector games. I expect to talk to him more about this stuff in the future.
.. He also said that if there was ever a game I was looking for it was probable that him or one of his peers in Cincinnati/Dayton area could procure it.
.. Heh i tested him with Aztarac though and he had never heard of it.
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Post by VectorX on Jan 22, 2014 17:34:40 GMT -5
Heh, interesting about Aztarac!
Nice for him to know about the others though (I assume).
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Post by xefned on Jan 27, 2014 0:57:14 GMT -5
Wow, I need to set notifications for this thread; can't believe I missed this! I'm making a trip to Cincy for the place!
Here's an older video from the first month they were open. Their current list of games is pretty bitchin'. (Although I have NO IDEA why every retro arcade has a Popeye machine. What a turd that game is.) |
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Post by VectorX on Jan 27, 2014 12:54:18 GMT -5
^I never saw the appeal of that game either. It was o. k. at best, in my opinion.
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