Now playing: classic, non-vector games

[gamezone]

Shining in the Darkness is a great game. I traded off ActRaiser and Shining Force II years ago. Sadly never played either. I have turned down ActRaiser 2 when I have seen it for sale cheap. Probably not my best moments.

I did get several 5200 games for Shining Force II. Not sure about ActRaiser.

[wyldephang]

Glip, in case you're still scouting for good Game Boy games, I'd nominate Gargoyle's Quest for your consideration.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargoyle%27s_Quest

It's the first game in the Gargoyle's Quest series, an offshoot of Ghosts n' Goblins featuring Firebrand, the infamous red demon. It's best described as a platforming action game with RPG elements, a style of gameplay that would carry through all games in the series. It's one of the more underrated titles on the Game Boy.

Apr 5, 2013 23:43:57 GMT -5 gamezone said:

Shining in the Darkness is a great game. I traded off ActRaiser and Shining Force II years ago. Sadly never played either. I have turned down ActRaiser 2 when I have seen it for sale cheap. Probably not my best moments.

I did get several 5200 games for Shining Force II. Not sure about ActRaiser.

Don't feel too badly about it. ActRaiser II is generally considered to be a disappointing follow-up to the groundbreaking first game. For one, the elements that made ActRaiser such an outstanding, original game have been omitted--no city building, no interaction with townspeople. ActRaiser II is a straight-ahead action game with improved visuals, but it doesn't live up to the standard set by its predecessor. It's a good game for the most part, but hard, and sits within a different genre.

[gamezone]

I was curious about ActRaiser II. I always hear more talk about ActRaiser. Figured number II was a lesser known title and that is why no one ever talked much about the game. Changing the game would turn off your fan base.

[wyldephang]

I'm happy to report that I've acquired a copy of Shining Force for the Sega Genesis! As I said before, I missed an opportunity last year to collect the whole series on the Genesis for a good price. If money had permitted, I would have drained the seller's entire inventory, as he was selling copies of TMNT: Hyperstone Heist, Herzog Zwei, Castle of Illusion, and other games for well below the market value. (Some of those games have doubled in price on eBay. I did buy about 15 cartridges from him, though, so I shouldn't complain, as I picked up a bunch of classics.) Anyway, I was leaning toward Shining Force 1 because it was a bit cheaper--for just the cartridge, it was $9, whereas SF2 was closer to $14. I found my copy of SF1 on Amazon for $15, but it was complete with box and manual. So, I missed out on the cartridge for nine dollars, but I picked up the complete set for six dollars more. Not a bad deal; I feel as if I can stop kicking myself.

I know the Shining Force games tend to resemble strategy or role-playing tactics games, whereas Shining in the Darkness was a classic dungeon-crawler. That's just fine. I don't have any other tactical RPGs in my collection. Eventually, I'd like to pick up Final Fantasy Tactics, but SF1 will suffice for now. I'm excited to give it a try.

[VectorX]

It'll be interesting to hear your input about it. I thought the game was a bit overrated, but then I'm not a big RPG guy, so maybe I'm a little biased towards it.

[wyldephang]

Tonight has been a blitzkrieg gaming session of sorts, sandwiched between today's homework and hanging out with my girlfriend tomorrow for her birthday. I've had a few hours to play Shining Force; I like it a lot! At first, I thought the combat would be focused on a small party of four or five, but my team has quickly grown into a mini battalion; I've got eight adventurers with me at this point in the game, and as far as I can tell, they're all active participants. I'm realizing that Shining Force cannot be compared to Phantasy Star or Final Fantasy because the game sits within a different genre. Whereas the classic J-RPG formula puts the emphasis on individual battles and micromanagement, this game simplifies battle into four commands: moving, attacking, using magic, and using items. (In Final Fantasy, on the other hand, you may have other battle commands like limit breaks/desperation moves, changing ranks, defensive moves, class- and character-specific abilities like Steal, and summoning spells.) Battles start out slow, but can quickly become hectic as more enemy combatants move forward to meet the party. Proximity to the enemy and to the party members means everything to proper offensive and defensive coordination. If I have a healer sauntering around in the rear ranks, then I won't be able to summon him or her quickly enough to rescue my endangered party members. On the other hand, if I rush forward carelessly, I'm certain to be picked apart by the enemy AI, which seems to target weaker party members first. The plot is intriguing enough: an invading force ransacks the hero's town, kills almost everyone, and gets away with a mystical relic--that's about as much as I've gathered. The party members themselves have little in the way of background story, but I'm expecting that I'll eventually learn more about them and their motives. There is a touching moment when a female knight's father is killed in the line of duty and swears vengeance, joining the Shining Force team to aid in the quest. As I said, it's still early, and I'll be sure to update this thread once in a while. By the way, the music has been great. Here's the theme that plays when the player reaches the castle.

[VectorX]

Yeah, I've recorded a few pieces from some of the Shining games myself

[gliptitude]

Apr 7, 2013 22:03:47 GMT -5 wyldephang said:

Glip, in case you're still scouting for good Game Boy games, I'd nominate Gargoyle's Quest for your consideration.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargoyle%27s_Quest

It's the first game in the Gargoyle's Quest series, an offshoot of Ghosts n' Goblins featuring Firebrand, the infamous red demon. It's best described as a platforming action game with RPG elements, a style of gameplay that would carry through all games in the series. It's one of the more underrated titles on the Game Boy.

Thanks for the recommendation wyldephang. Testing it out right now.

... Man I couldn't agree with you more about the awesomeness of Metroid II. It is probably my favorite installment in the series, almost certainly my favorite DMG Game Boy game. ...I kind of feel like that series, as incredible as it is, is plagued with some really frustrating flaws:

The first one is very frustrating because whenever you resume a game you have VERY little energy, and have to spend a long time just PREPARING to make progress.

Super Metroid is excellent, but I actually find some of the graphics annoying, like the cut scenes. As smooth as it is, I just don't find it as stylish as Metroid II.

Metroid Prime is very impressive, but I feel like a lot of the style of the game is lost in the transition to 3D/1st person.

Metroid Prime Hunters had the potential to be THE BEST DS game ever. The first person view bothers me less in that format, and the scope of that game is entirely unrivaled on that hand-held console. ... I'd love to spend hours playing that game, but the consensus criticism of it is identical with my own: the controls are just way too difficult!!!

Metroid II is just perfectly presented. Nice scale and level design, totally essential graphics, intuitive game play, great music...

I feel like Metroid is the best example of BAROQUE ART that video gaming has to offer - stark contrasts, excessive labyrinthine environments, iconic discord. The "problems" with some of the installments are consistent with the sometimes messy problems with Baroque art. But it's cool to have a platforming game with such massive environments and ornamental game objectives.

[wyldephang]

I'm an SNES collector, so it'd be a stretch for me to claim any impartiality, but my favorite game in the series is Super Metroid. I felt it was the most complete package: a great mix of atmospheres and colors, enormous bosses, an expanded repertoire of weapons and abilities, and a 16-bit soundtrack (which I regularly rotate on my MP3 player) that is pure decadence for the ear. The developers did an amazing job of improving the visuals and music while keeping a firm grip on the feeling of isolation as Samus navigates subsurface mazes, abandoned labs and ships, and ancient ruins. Metroid II ranks alongside it, and is just as important to the Metroid canon, but I think the SNES installment pulls ahead by a thin margin. One thing of note is that the environments in the Game Boy game were scaled down in size, making Samus and her hit box comparatively larger. It was difficult for me to adjust; the game began to make me feel a little claustrophobic, but that did add an element of uneasiness to the overall atmosphere, not knowing what lurks just beyond the border of the screen. It's a thing of preference, I suppose. I have both games, enjoy them immensely, and would regard them as essential titles for their respective platforms. While we're on the subject of essential games, I'm glad you're going to look into Gargoyle's Quest. The game spawned a mini-franchise consisting of three games; I was lucky to score my copy of the third one, which appears on the SNES under the title Demon's Crest, for a reasonable price. On eBay, the cartridge sells for over $50, surpassing the prices of Final Fantasy III, Super Mario RPG, and many other in-demand titles. In comparison, the Game Boy game shouldn't cost much more than $5 or $10, not a bad investment if you like games that combine action with RPG elements.

Metroid Prime Hunters was the first DS game I sampled; immediately, I saw the potential of the game and the system. After I got my DS in 2007, I made it a priority to track down a copy of Prime Hunters, which had already been in stores for over a year. I managed to play through it in eight hours--for reference, it took me about four to complete Super Metroid--and I thought the controls were intuitive, but the design of the DS Lite really prevented me from getting comfortable with the game. My hands are a bit large for the DS, and trying to balance the console with my left hand while using the stylus with my right was a painful, nearly carpal tunnel syndrome-inducing exercise. Other than that, the enemies felt a bit generic at times, and the online mode is plagued with cheaters, but it's an ambitious attempt at a handheld FPS game and a great Metroid title. There's a lot to like about it.

I finished Metroid Prime Hunters around the time I began my first playthrough of Mass Effect for the Xbox 360, and I noticed a lot of similarities between them. (MPH came out before ME.) In both games, we have an ancient civilization that is wiped out by a primordial evil. And on the verge of destruction, this endangered race leaves behind clues for the following generations, hoping to correct their failures and contain the monstrosity that was unleashed upon the universe. I suppose the Chozo truly set the precedent for this by releasing the Metroids, but the MPH/ME comparison is still very compelling. The effect really sat in when I discovered the Alimbic relics in MPH, and through their descriptions learned more about the enemy (Gorea) the Alimbics faced. In ME, you discover the misfortune of the Prothean race: how they were systematically wiped out by the Reapers, a race of sentient warships. Just as the relics in MPH teach you about the Alimbics, you learn more about the Prothean culture and technology by interfacing with a Prothean virtual intelligence module. In MPH, you must track down a hidden location (Oubliette) as a key event in destroying the ancient evil; and in ME, the squad comes to Ilos, a remote planet that holds the secrets to destroying the Reaper threat. The games are very similar. There is a very chilling moment in Mass Effect when you speak with a Reaper named Sovereign and learn of its genocidal motives:

[gliptitude]

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis wyldephang. "Decadence" is another word I forgot to use. I'm not surprised that Super Metroid is your favorite in the series. Probably more people agree with that than with my choice of Metroid II.

Pretty amazing to me that you beat Hunters so swiftly, and had so little trouble with the controls. I've certainly never beat it, and you can rest assured that many many others have commented on their difficulties with the controls. ... I agree with almost all of your assessment of the game though. Super impressive and ambitious for that console, but eventually a bit generic in some ways. ... Something I remember from it though, that I don't remember getting from the Game Cube titles, was that it reminded me in some instances of this "funky" ladies' shoe store at my local mall when I was a kid. Strange colorful but dimly lit tree branches and stuff, maybe indicative of early 90's design, something you might have seen in the movie Beetlejuice.

Unfortunately my internet is too slow and not budgeted to watch the video you linked...

I wonder if, as a SNES collector, you have any experience with the 3rd party portable SNES consoles (Supaboy etc)? Do you recommend those at all? ... I think I'd have a much easier time getting into SNES this way. I've otherwise mostly restricted myself to the few games that were ported to GBA and DS, as well as sampling some others in emulation on my computer.

[gamezone]

Metroid must be like Mega Man. You are either a fan or you have not spent much time playing any of the games.

I have several Mega Man games as well as Metroid for the NES and Metroid II for the GB. Never have played them for more then a few minutes. Must be time to finally start a serious game.

[gliptitude]

Metroid might classify as a "serious game", definitely more so than Mega Man. Mega Man seems to me very typical of the games of that era. ... Which NES games are more your speed?

[wyldephang]

Mega Man and Metroid are alike in some respects, but I find they have more differences than similarities. Mega Man breaks down the action into linear stages, but in Metroid, the environments are connected and you'll travel from one end of the world to the other without ever seeing a stage select screen. In Mega Man, you're given the freedom to choose the level progression; in Metroid, you're inhibited by various factors from free roaming. You may need to collect a certain power-up or ability, for instance, before getting through to the next region. Incidentally, Metroid is a non-linear game that rewards exploration, and the few restrictions that are placed on you allow for a reasonable distance of free roaming; it's already a maze-like game, and you'd never complete it without a strategy guide if you were allowed to walk the entire world right out of the gate. They're two of my favorite franchises; in fact, Mega Man 2 was the first game I can remember playing.

Glip, I don't have first-hand experience with the clone consoles or third-party handhelds, but I have read reviews and most of them are positive. If there are any problems with the clone consoles, it may be in their incompatibility with a select few SNES titles. Some revisions of Super Mario RPG are incompatible with the clones due to a variation in the ROM board, or perhaps the co-processor cannot interface with the console. The Supaboy is a great alternative because it seems to be compatible with all North American and Japanese cartridges. The unit itself is in the $70-80 price range, though, making it more expensive than the average SNES on eBay. If given the choice, I'd rather own the original, but out of all third-party consoles, I would trust the Supaboy the most for its reliability and reputation for quality. Also, the controller design looks comfortable and reportedly works well. (And luckily, tracking down and buying replacement controllers for the SNES won't be as expensive as it is for the Vectrex!)

Before you invest in an SNES or Supaboy, you may want to browse your favorite auction sites and stores for SNES games to get a feel for the costs entailed in SNES collecting. The greatest deterrent is the price of the games, which is consistently on the rise, though most of the favorites can still be found for under $10-20 per cartridge. Some examples: F-Zero, Star Fox, Street Fighter II, the Star Wars games, and Super Mario World can usually be found for under $10. Donkey Kong Country, Mega Man X, Super Punch-out, and Zelda: Link to the Past are generally sold for under $20. Super Castlevania IV, Super Metroid, and TMNT IV: Turtles in Time sit under the $30 mark. Inevitably, you'll run across a bunch of SNES cartridges priced at a premium. The Final Fantasy games will range from $5-10 (for Mystic Quest) to $25-35 (for FFII or FFIII), and Chrono Trigger will net over $50 on a good day. Secret of Mana and Super Mario RPG are usually priced in the low $40 range. The rarer games will peak at $150-200, but aside of Earthbound, there isn't a lot in that territory worth collecting. Luckily, the SNES library is so packed with quality games that you could own only a few of these games and be preoccupied with them for a long time. The fact that few people today can form a consensus on the single best SNES game--whether it's Metroid, Mario, Donkey Kong Country, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Zelda, or something else--just demonstrates the reputation of the console for ageless titles.

[gamezone]

The SNES really has a far ranging appeal for any type of gamer. Super Mario All-Stars is a favorite, Adventures of Batman & Robin, Super Mario 2 - Yoshi's Island and U.N. Squadron. NES is about the same, platforms and arcade hits. M.U.L.E., Robin Hood and Star Tropics are well worth the look.

[gliptitude]

Yeh I'll probably grab a Supaboy this summer. Portability is a major selling point for me, plus you can still hook the Supaboy up to a TV anyway. It looks like a pretty sweet novelty to have on the shelf.

I've browsed SNES games periodically on ebay and also at a few shops around here. I wouldn't be "collecting" really. Just playing the handful of games that especially appeal to me and haven't been ported (already have Link to Past for GBA and Chrono Trigger for DS). Also would be playing Game Boy games on it with the Super Game Boy cart.