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Post by Luitoine on Aug 18, 2014 2:19:39 GMT -5
I think we can conclude from this auction that the pre-order will probably ship before end of the year with the new die-cut overlay, so... it's not that bad!
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Post by ray242 on Aug 18, 2014 2:23:20 GMT -5
Glad I never ordered this game from George. Selling this copy at a $355 bid instead of serving at least one of his already paying, and 3 years waiting customers is a real scandal. Afraid the now over 2 years old hellhole-Vectrosis game will turn out into the same….that I did order :-(
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 18, 2014 14:11:19 GMT -5
If i were Fury i would have felt extremely agitated a couple months ago to see that one of the few copies of the game yet released was auctioned on ebay for a profit 4 or 5 times that of the developer himself who was still committed to fulfilling existing orders at the original price.
It stinks for the customers to have to wait so long but it is also a rather ridiculous situation when customers themselves are reselling the game so quickly for so much money. Clearly the current trade value of the game far exceeds the price that was billed during pre-order BY A WIDE MARGIN, so when a preorder customer CANCELS it makes perfect sense for the developer to charge what the traders are currently charging for the same product.
It is also pretty apparent that the hold up is the overlay and that this auction will ship in advance of the final overlay. The product is not complete yet.
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Post by sj on Aug 18, 2014 15:09:00 GMT -5
^ It might make perfect sense but it doesn't strike me as being morally or ethically correct - especially after all the delays. And if I was waiting for my copy I'd be pretty hacked off.
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Post by vectrexrc on Aug 18, 2014 16:47:28 GMT -5
^agree. IMO he should have waited until he shipped to those waiting for 3 years before he considered auctioning it. I guess he is now hoping others will cancel for another payday...and all this only goes to fuel a hyped value for the limited editions - a cynic might say he wanted to test the market value.
I really don't think this model of homebrew releases is good. I guess he is only really marketing to the collectors and people "in the know" or is just in right place at right time to get on the pre-order list (and willing to give him cash for 3 years).
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Post by VectorGamer on Aug 19, 2014 8:48:02 GMT -5
You guys keep saying that there are problems with the overlays which is what is holding this project up. Why is he having problems with overlays when a guy like Kristoff can offer up to three or four different overlays for Vector Pilot?
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Post by VectorX on Aug 19, 2014 9:03:46 GMT -5
Obviously Kristof had an easier way to produce them. I'm not 100% sure, but it sounds like George had a problem/delays with whoever was making the overlays for him.
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Post by sj on Aug 19, 2014 9:33:40 GMT -5
^ I can't see how it takes years to resolve though.
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Post by 50tbrd on Aug 19, 2014 9:36:25 GMT -5
I think its easier to get overlays made in Europe. I think the printers are more open or have better capabilities. Americans either don't want to do anything outside of the norm or don't have the capabilities. And apparently the shipping makes it cost prohibitive to use printers overseas.
I think at the very least he could ship carts to those on the pre-order.
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Post by binarystar on Aug 19, 2014 11:21:05 GMT -5
There are probably a lot more options for printing in the states than in any single country in Europe. I found a sign-maker in my own city who could produce overlays without trouble, I doubt there are a lack of printers or sign makers in California! Aside from overlays I think Furys problem may be that he has not got enough shells to cover the preorders and will not have any more until packrat games starts producing their own as he was not part of the last shell order from Sean K.
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Post by vectrexrc on Aug 19, 2014 16:31:05 GMT -5
If there is really a problem with the overlays maybe he should consider outsourcing it to Vectrex Mad. His printer did a great job on his YASI overlays.
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 19, 2014 23:46:25 GMT -5
You guys keep saying that there are problems with the overlays which is what is holding this project up. Why is he having problems with overlays when a guy like Kristoff can offer up to three or four different overlays for Vector Pilot? Kristoff's overlays are outstanding but to my knowlege he is the only programmer currently offering overlays for his games and the only to have done so in years. I'm not sure that anybody else ever, (besides Vectrexmad), has achieved the same quality or even attempted that genuine of a production process. From what i understand Kristoff has had a pretty ideal arrangement with his printer and he also was able to plan the printing in a pretty efficient way, with little waste. He prints i think four different designs on each large sheet before cutting and it does not look like he got caught up significantly with bad runs or having to change printers or anything like that. It is pretty clear from the events documented in this thread, including this recent auction, that Fury DID produce Warrior overlays and that he was not satisfied with the quality of the results. .. It is UNIMAGINABLE to me that he got these inferior overlays printed for free and i think it is likely that he got the entire edition printed at once, only to end up scrapping and starting over. .. He has never produced an overlay before and i am fairly certain he will never do so again. It really is not a simple matter to get the results that Kristoff gets. 99% of screenprint shops print exclusively on fabric and paper. The best process and most appropriate inks for translucent printing on clear plastic REQUIRES UV CURING which is something that very few small shops are going to otherwise have the facility for. .. Also consider that a Vectrex overlay requires near perfection in purity of the printing because it is going to be lit from behind and viewed from only about a foot away. This means that you are likely to have to discard a significant quantity of printed product that does not measure up. .. When you add to these factors the issue that you are only trying to print a couple hundred copies, (a very small run for an item of this particular of a manufacturing process), it is quite a challenge to find a qualified printer who actually sees the project as something worth his own time and investment. .. For a project of this scale you are almost certainly going to be dealing with a small shop and you are very likely going to have to convince this shop to do something significantly different than anything they have done before. I have spoken myself with several local screenprinters about the prospect of making Vectrex overlays and it has been a pretty discouraging experience. .. Most screenprinters are printers because they enjoy printing, but this project is not fun for them because it is tedious and unfamiliar. It's hard to convince a professional to do something tedious and unfamiliar and not fun to them WHEN THERE IS ALSO VERY LITTLE COMMERCIAL VALUE TO IT.
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Post by gliptitude on Aug 20, 2014 0:01:57 GMT -5
I found a sign-maker in my own city who could produce overlays without trouble, So did this sign maker actually produce some overlays? Were they silkscreen printed like Kristoff's? Die cut? Were you satisfied with the results? HOW MUCH DID IT COST?
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Post by ray242 on Aug 20, 2014 1:00:09 GMT -5
However Georges overlay will turn out to be, the main difference between his and Kristofs will always remain that he sold the overlay of his dreams and the other a ready to ship overlay/product. I don’t see why the Warriors overlays could not be produced by the same printer Kristof uses. The costs of sending 150 overlays from the EU to the US wont be that high, and selecting low priced surface shipping would not cause a 3 years delay…
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Post by Luitoine on Aug 20, 2014 2:41:51 GMT -5
However Georges overlay will turn out to be, the main difference between his and Kristofs will always remain that he sold the overlay of his dreams and the other a ready to ship overlay/product. I don’t see why the Warriors overlays could not be produced by the same printer Kristof uses. The costs of sending 150 overlays from the EU to the US wont be that high, and selecting low priced surface shipping would not cause a 3 years delay… I think it's easy to say that now, but Georges certainly didn't know that he will have so much difficulty with the overlays. We don't know what exactly happened, but it seems probable to me that Georges chose a way of printing that he thought to be good (and was not the one you propose), but that finally revealed itself to be a nightmare. So he had to figure out a new way of printing, which means that he lost time and money by completely changing the way to print the overlays. I know 3 years is a long time, and I also preordered Warrior (I'm also probably the last one on the order list, so... I 'll have to wait even longer than you ), but I really think that something went wrong and that it's not just a caprice from Georges. I mean, he has done and sold great Vectrex games for 10 years, why would he suddenly decide to piss off on purpose a lot of Vectrex fans?
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