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Post by VectorX on Oct 3, 2015 20:14:25 GMT -5
Some good update/hack ideas here  |
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Post by binarystar on Oct 4, 2015 9:41:19 GMT -5
Writing a new homebrew game from scratch on a system that has documentation is a much easier and less daunting task than reverse engineering, disassembling and hacking in new functionality to mostly undocumented arcade systems though.
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Post by gliptitude on Oct 4, 2015 14:19:22 GMT -5
Writing a new homebrew game from scratch on a system that has documentation is a much easier and less daunting task than reverse engineering, disassembling and hacking in new functionality to mostly undocumented arcade systems though. I imagine it's also more rewarding to write a console homebrew since a considerable number of people will actually be able to play your game .. on the intended platform and at a reasonable price. Plus it's almost exactly like the original experience as a gamer and as a consumer - as opposed to a new arcade hack which probably wouldn't even end up in a real arcade, just in the basements of collectors. .. The rise of retro arcades is encouraging, but it seems like this trend is way too tied to nostalgia for anything new or experimental to be tolerated. .. I don't even have a general sense of how an arcade program works or what it consists of. I seem to remember at some point hearing that there often IS a main program ROM, but I see that there are dozens of chips on a board so I don't have any idea what is possible. Like potentially you can swap only one chip to make a different game, using the same graphics and sounds as the donor ? ? ? ... At least there is emulation to facilitate experimentation. .. When they made game conversion kits back in the day did this involve swapping entire boards, or were operators actually soldering new chips? |
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Post by binarystar on Oct 5, 2015 2:35:59 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree on the nostalgia bit. I'd love to create a new arcade game at some point (possibly for galaxian or pacman hardware) but I doubt many people would be interested in buying it. Level hacks for existing games (such as Bubble Bobble lost caverns or Tempest Tubes) are much easier to do and are more popular with collectors as they give their old familiar games a new lease of life.
A typical arcade game from the 80s was essentially a custom computer on a pcb with cpu, video chips, sound board and program and data roms. Sometimes it is possible to swap out program and data rom chips for other games that share the same hardware but i doubt that was done back in the day. Normally conversion kits included a whole new game pcb, decals for control panel and sides and a new marquee. Sometimes a whole new control panel, depending on what you were converting from/to. Later JAMMA standardised the edge connector for games so any new game by any manufacturer could be swapped with another and systems like the neogeo operated like consoles, where you could swap out cartridges from the main game board making it much easier for the operator.
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Post by gliptitude on Oct 6, 2015 1:55:31 GMT -5
Galaxian or Pacman eh? No vectors? .. I suppose the vector games are too prescious to hack, and there isn't a single game that is simultaneously common enough and expendable enough to rededicate to a new game. Very few owners would be willing to change over an Asteroids, Battlezone or Tempest.
.. I see that two of the three retro arcades in my town have invested in a Fix It Felix Jr cabinet, which I presume costs thousands. I don't care for this game but the popularity of it might be interpreted as a positive sign. .. Like if you can package or present it the right way it could be in demand.
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Post by binarystar on Oct 6, 2015 2:51:39 GMT -5
It's more a matter of documentation. Afaik, there's little to no documentation out there for the vector systems and I have little time or inclination to reverse engineer and document one. And as you say, the boards are quite rare and expensive. Galaxian/Pacman/Pengo boards are pretty plentiful and documented so programming for those systems would be an easier task.
The Fix It Felix cabs are just PCs inside, not a reprogrammed arcade system. Though I know someone was working on a port that ran on World Cup 90 hardware but I don't think the ROM has been released yet. They are homebrew affairs with a reproduction Nintendo style cabinet, quite easy to make if you source the correct cabinet and decals.
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Post by gliptitude on Oct 6, 2015 10:41:51 GMT -5
I kind of figured Fix It Felix was a more modern setup. I just meant that it's encouraging that operators have embraced a new game.
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Post by binarystar on Oct 7, 2015 3:21:22 GMT -5
Ah yeah, it's great to see a new game in Retro arcades but being a movie tie-in it's a bit of a special case. I'd love to see new homebrew games embraced in this way but I don't see the same thing happening with (for example) homebrew NeoGeo arcade games.
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Post by ledzep on Oct 9, 2015 20:51:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree on the nostalgia bit. I'd love to create a new arcade game at some point (possibly for galaxian or pacman hardware) but I doubt many people would be interested in buying it. Level hacks for existing games (such as Bubble Bobble lost caverns or Tempest Tubes) are much easier to do and are more popular with collectors as they give their old familiar games a new lease of life. A typical arcade game from the 80s was essentially a custom computer on a pcb with cpu, video chips, sound board and program and data roms. Sometimes it is possible to swap out program and data rom chips for other games that share the same hardware but i doubt that was done back in the day. Normally conversion kits included a whole new game pcb, decals for control panel and sides and a new marquee. Sometimes a whole new control panel, depending on what you were converting from/to. Later JAMMA standardised the edge connector for games so any new game by any manufacturer could be swapped with another and systems like the neogeo operated like consoles, where you could swap out cartridges from the main game board making it much easier for the operator. I'm sure the video game/geek cred from coding a new game for an existing arcade cabinet must be far greater than creating a homebrew game for a home console. I'm all for both but I can't think of anything cooler than a new game for a known arcade cabinet. I'd guess that vector programming would be higher still on the geek cred scale. And then if it's something for a game with oddball controls? It's not a vector game but I was so jazzed to see that Missile Command 2 game that showed up at California Extreme a few years ago, a 2-player tabletop (looked like an old Atari Football cabinet) cooperative version of the familiar Missile Command game. I'd love to see something like that for a vector cabinet, a new game. How cool would it be to make a game that mimics a gun turret from a WWII bomber or a Millennium Falcon quad cannon using the Star Wars Arcade Game controls? I think it would be easier for everyone in general if there were more disassembled code dumps of arcade games. At least that way we could know how the original worked and possibly come up with new games with less hassle. |
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Post by gliptitude on Oct 15, 2015 20:25:13 GMT -5
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