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Post by zector on Apr 29, 2014 16:05:51 GMT -5
Are you saying video games aren't "sufficiently original" to meet the threshold? I could program a homebrew clone version of Sony's "The Last of Us" for Nintendo called the "The Last of Wii", and threshold of originality would keep the Sony lawyers off my back?
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Post by madtronix on Apr 29, 2014 16:13:48 GMT -5
I don't think it's unreasonable for you to assume you do not have permission to rebublish anything until you actually have permission. It is super-standard procedure in publishing (etc) to clear the rights before publishing, not after. Copyright protection is automatic, there is no requirement under copyright law to post notices anywhere. Taking the word of some ROM collectors or quasi-legal abandonware site is far from due diligence (the copyright notices on the title screens would be a good clue though). I'm not exactly sure how you could be aware enough not to include VIX, but then think it's ok to include everything else. I didn't see myself as a publisher, rather someone who does something in the retro game scene. I'm not really professional. 3 of 5 ROMs did not include your name. Ok I removed - 2 games: Omega chase and Tsunami (the latter does not contain your name btw.) - 3 demos: 8ball, philly classic and pop (the last two don't have your name in it either) from the list and the website. I always found the scene to be very respectful, if you don't want the next multicart maker to make the same mistake, propably have your ROMs removed from some sites then. For me this whole thing is about respect, we don't have so many US laws here in Europe, so I'm not that aware of them.
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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 16:16:11 GMT -5
Are you saying video games aren't "sufficiently original" to meet the threshold? I could program a homebrew clone version of Sony's "The Last of Us" for Nintendo called the "The Last of Wii", and threshold of originality would keep the Sony lawyers off my back? If you can't see the difference between a controller hack consisting of a few lines of code and complete game on a new platform, including substantive changes from the original inspiration, then I don't think we'll ever find any common ground or basis of communication. But I would love to understand your point and purpose here: A) Multi-cart manufacturer, CDrom compilers and websites should feel free to distribute anything they wish regardless of authorship. B) Developers who create games clearly inspired by previous games are due no consideration and are the equivalent of A). C) You're just here to troll with a guest account. D) All of the above.
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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 16:19:45 GMT -5
I didn't see myself as a publisher, Clearly you are by any definition of the term. Ok I removed - 2 games: Omega chase and Tsunami (the latter does not contain your name btw.) - 3 demos: 8ball, philly classic and pop (the last two don't have your name in it either) from the list and the website. Thank you. we don't have so many US laws here in Europe I don't know what you think Americans have to do with any of this.
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Post by VectorX on Apr 29, 2014 16:30:37 GMT -5
Yeah, the Wikipedia mention was based on the Gamasutra article. I've edited the Wikipedia page to remove it, we'll see if it sticks but at least it's editable - Chris Romero already complained in the comments of the Gamasutra article but they obviously don't care to fix it. Plus Wikipedia and/or wiki asshat founders/admins don't always care either. I saw on Atari Age just a few months back in regards to people who spent hours writing out stuff/articles that got deleted from Wikipedia, yet they had references and everything. George (/FURY) also had similar gripes in a thread from a while back in regards to the same thing. The archived chatter about the matter made it VERY clear the idiot that wouldn't accept anything as to being fact was very biased, questioning if the Vectrex mattered, especially since it was an obscure, not a big seller of a console. That's funny, I thought Wikipedia was just in regards to sharing information, regardless of how much something did or didn't sell.
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Post by madtronix on Apr 29, 2014 16:47:52 GMT -5
we don't have so many US laws here in Europe I don't know what you think Americans have to do with any of this. US laws I mean not people. What I mean is that the laws you refer to probably don't exist here (I assume you're US based?) and the threshold concept you linked is not familiar to me. But I'm a layman for me the wiki article confirms that this must be an US concept not thoroughly adopted here. But no matter if I now legally can use your stuff with or without permission, I won't do it out of respect. That was what I wanted to say. Till now Vectrex always was just about spreading the experience for me (think of all the quality games being freely available) - Similar to doing music remixes in certain music scenes or just giving stuff away for free. I don't understand
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Post by VectorX on Apr 29, 2014 16:53:41 GMT -5
C) You're just here to troll with a guest account. As sarcasm doesn't always translate well over the internet, he might not've been trolling; Person A could read that and say "what a jerk troll", while Person B could think "he's just asking a question". All I'll say in regards to the matter is the case of Venture Line (or whatever their name was) years ago who won their lawsuit when sued by Atari over their severe Asteroids clone Meteors game. The court ruled against Atari, stating that basically game ideas in themselves weren't copyright infringement.
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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 16:59:58 GMT -5
I'm not American. My argument with the other guy was that he was inferring that games inspired by previous works are not copyrightable. My link was a counter-argument but I probably should have gone with this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work
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Post by Mayhem on Apr 29, 2014 17:29:55 GMT -5
I completely agree with you Christopher that in general, permission should be sought first before publishing, not the other way around. If that was always the case though, Gamebase64 (which attempts to archive every single C64 game ever made) would not exist, but we don't even sell it, so it's run below cost (!) as many of us buy games out of our pocket to put in there. Vectrex multicarts are sold so... we've had plenty of discussion already.
Just playing devil's advocate here, was Spinnerama sold only at-cost? Given that featured hacks of works by other people rather than original creations.
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Post by gliptitude on Apr 30, 2014 11:16:06 GMT -5
Nevermind
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Post by jbrodack on Apr 30, 2014 23:41:32 GMT -5
Christopher Tumber isn't coming off looking too good from this thread. It looked like madtronix tried his best to check if he could use roms on his multicart. On such a niche system as the vectrex it would be easy to assume that any game freely available to download would have no problem being on a multicart. Especially if that person hasn't been active in years. Don't see why Christopher is so angry over this. Mistakes happen.
In any case I prefer the flashable multicarts since you can put any freely available rom on them and the makers of them don't have to worry about issues of ownership.
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Post by VectorX on May 1, 2014 0:00:10 GMT -5
Christopher Tumber isn't coming off looking too good from this thread. It's an opinion/point of view to the individual reader. Don't see why Christopher is so angry over this. He copyrighted his games, so no one has the right to put them on a multicart.
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Post by jbrodack on May 1, 2014 1:11:30 GMT -5
I'm not saying he doesn't have the right to request his games not being on the multicart. It's a perfectly reasonable request and I do respect the rights of any Vectrex author to release their games under their own terms. It just seems a bit of an overreaction to an honest mistake.
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Post by cNp on May 1, 2014 3:01:23 GMT -5
I think anyone who's dealt with John knows he's as nice a guy as you could hope to deal with and his various pieces of hardware are amazing well designed and made and sold for little to no profit but for the love of it and to support the community.
An honest mistake has been made, probably could have been settled privately but here we are.
Move along, nothing to see here...
cNp
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Post by Der Luchs on May 1, 2014 7:53:46 GMT -5
At madtronix: You can put VECFAHREN and the UNTOT DEMO on your Cartridge, if you can't find enough Stuff to fill the Cartridges, I'll compose some exclusive Music Tracks for your Multis.
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