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Post by garryg on Jul 1, 2015 7:36:47 GMT -5
How important is sound in a game to you, or more specifically how important is sound in a in a retro-styled game?
I see a lot of Vectrex games pushing the sound envelope ( <- programmer joke, almost) in games lately, but I’d really rather put those cycles/CPU time to better use.
Most of my home-brew stuff has been limited to spot effects in the past, although you obviously can’t get away with this in most PC games, or games for modern systems in general.
So do you think better music makes for a better game?
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Post by Mayhem on Jul 1, 2015 8:51:20 GMT -5
Music and SFX certainly do help, so it is an area that shouldn't be neglected, but obviously the Vectrex is a bit different to many other consoles. Good audio is easily possible, but as you say, at the expense of cycles.
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Post by VectorX on Jul 1, 2015 9:24:03 GMT -5
It's not gigantically important. The sound is flat-out TERRIBLE, in my opinion, on the Atari 2600 game Escape from the MindMaster when the Stalker's around, but does that stop me from playing one of my all-time favorite 2600 games several times a year? No.
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Post by binarystar on Jul 1, 2015 11:03:12 GMT -5
Doing sound fx doesn't really waste so many cycles that you should drop them. SFX are very important to a games 'feel' imo and can also be very good for 'calling out' events that happen (extra life, level up etc) without having to draw anything extra on screen, so sometimes they can actually save on cpu time. Music is great in-game but with 3 channels available, doing music and sfx at once requires careful assignment of voices. I usually just put a piece of music on the title screen and keep it to sfx only in-game.
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Post by 50tbrd on Jul 1, 2015 11:24:29 GMT -5
I agree with Binarystar. SFX also give a polished, intentional quality to a game, where none can make it seem unfinished.
Music is not neccessary but can make a dull game more exciting. Music can create a mood for certain levels or games and unique, quality music can make a game. Gameplay is the most important thing in a game so if in-game music hurts the gameplay, then it probably shouldn't be there.
Is there a cycle advantage to using the VecVox/VecVoice?
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Post by VectorX on Jul 1, 2015 11:30:54 GMT -5
Gameplay is the most important thing in a game Yep. That's why Vectropolis 500 on Vectopia is still fun, even though it has no sound (along with bugs, since it was unfinished).
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Post by mikiex on Jul 1, 2015 16:11:12 GMT -5
I think its very important for any game it gives you cues and feedback, on the vectrex is not really a big cycle waster.
Think of those poor people that only have a DAC (Coco1/Dragon) they have to blast data. Its hard for them to make a clean tone while doing anything else.
SFX first and if you get a chance some music....
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Post by gliptitude on Jul 2, 2015 2:09:34 GMT -5
It is a creative design choice like any other. .. Usually good design is economical, in my opinion. It would seem a flaw to me for a game program to devote an inordinate amount of space to sound, at the expense of other attributes. But if that's what the game is about, then it's not a problem. .. Sound IS important in general, and i think it is also mandatory. But it doesn't have to be super complicated or diverse. .. I like the sound in Vectex Scramble, but it is pretty routine.
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Post by hcmffm on Jul 2, 2015 4:27:04 GMT -5
I share glip's point of view. Sound can support a game very much, but there's no need to have complicated music or extensive sounds playing. Most people know the sound of Flipper pinball's - there is sound with almost every event which is very supporting and helps the player to "dive" into the game. Phoenix (Arcade), Galaxians (Arcade&Vectrex), or Shifted (Vectrex) are also good examples for good sound which supports the gameplay very well. A game without sound still can be fun, but if possible some sound FX should be implemented.
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Post by kokovec on Jul 2, 2015 10:05:46 GMT -5
Depends on the type of game and the gaming system I suppose. For instance the C64 pretty much has to have great music and SFX to be considered a great game. For the Vectrex I find intro music can add allot to the atmospheric part of a game but not necessary during game play. I enjoy decent SFX during game play though.
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Post by garryg on Jul 5, 2015 18:40:54 GMT -5
So how about a VIC-20 and a Vectrex game, spot effects only or do they both need music?
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Post by VectorX on Jul 5, 2015 18:53:52 GMT -5
Depends on how much room you've got left and if the game (arguably) has an actual need for music.
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Post by gliptitude on Jul 6, 2015 18:03:58 GMT -5
So how about a VIC-20 and a Vectrex game, spot effects only or do they both need music? I'm not versed in ViC-20 gaming. But I believe that "spot effects" (if i understand what you mean by that) are usually adequate and can occassionally even be exceptional if used effectively. .. Let's presume that this small scale of sound programming may refer to the entire original library of GCE Vectrex games, and that you as a homebrewer, with plenty of time and more tools and documentation and four times as much available space as the original programmers, have the option of doing more. .. Well I don't think it's necessary to do more or to be ambitious about the sound in particular, but it is a very important part of the game. I definitely think you should put some thought and/or experimentation into the sound for your games, and figure out something that contributes to the overall effect of the game. .. I think sometimes periods of silence or very sparce sound design can be very interesting and moody in a video game, and there is a practical and effectively minimalist way to do it. But there must be some contrast and design about it. The conventional video game relies heavily on some sound effects to provide user feedback, i.e. Explosion sounds, bullet firing sounds... The player becomes accustomed to and even dependent on that feedback to maintain their orientation in the game. .. The brief musical overtures for each GCE game really set the stage for the game and I think add a lot to the overall experience, eventhough there is no music during gameplay.
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Post by garryg on Jul 7, 2015 7:49:57 GMT -5
I put a 'one voice' repeating version of 'PopCorn' (compiled by me) on my FloppyFish game, along with a 'hit' sound, just to test things out. It still plays OK, and the continual playing music isn't too annoying. The same music currently plays through the attract and main game-play process, although I may change this again. I may also look at putting a second (base) voice on the tune.
'Floppy Fish' is what I've named a version of my 'Quick Flappy-Bird de-make' game that I've been playing around with.
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Post by 50tbrd on Jul 7, 2015 8:07:17 GMT -5
I had looked at a few variations of Floppy Fish style games and thought that it offers a lot more dynamic qualities than just the standard Flappy Bird games.
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