Unexpected Refund FURY Warrior order

[desfeek]

Today, I reached out to George Pelonis of Fury Unlimited, wondering where three orders I have been waiting for months to receive were.

I explained that I have been waiting since March 2011 for Warrior (original due date November 2011), and months for two controller packages: the Overdrive and Vectrosis+Hellhole. I clearly stated I did not want a refund, but I would like him to consider stopping work on new projects (Yeti Controller, announced new controllers) and finish the products we have all paid for.

With no explanation attached, I got a full refund for all my purchases.

Now, I can't really be angry. I have all my money. However, I did just lose my spot on some ultra-cool Vectrex items. Why?

EDIT: Looks like shop.recycledgamer.com/collections/all will have some orders to fill

[Mayhem]

Huh... I asked George about two weeks what the status was on the things I'd ordered, was told Starblast would be along shortly (it was, it arrived a few days later) and the others were in progress. No refunds.

[VectorX]

Jan 29, 2013 1:47:10 GMT -5 desfeek said:

I clearly stated I did not want a refund, but I would like him to consider stopping work on new projects (Yeti Controller, announced new controllers) and finish the products we have all paid for.

With no explanation attached, I got a full refund for all my purchases.

Now, I can't really be angry. I have all my money. However, I did just lose my spot on some ultra-cool Vectrex items. Why?

He could've just been in a hurry, read it wrong and did that by mistake. Being an ex-movie critic myself and having deadlines, sometimes you don't "get" some things until later.

[sj]

Jan 29, 2013 1:47:10 GMT -5 desfeek said:

I explained that I have been waiting since March 2011 for Warrior (original due date November 2011),

That does strike me as a little unreasonable.

[VectorGamer]

Jan 29, 2013 1:47:10 GMT -5 desfeek said:

but I would like him to consider stopping work on new projects (Yeti Controller, announced new controllers) and finish the products we have all paid for.

I agree with that 110%. Nobody should be waiting for Warrior when new products are being developed and shipped.

[VectorX]

Well, I think he's been needing new PCBs in order to ship the remaining Warriors.

[fury]

Does it surprise any of you that he didn't post his email here?

And just for the record, I am NOT releasing any new items at this point. I'm only shipping existing items.

Retrocade, some items are pre-orders, some are not. The newer items are not slowing down Warrior shipments, other factors have been causing those slowdowns.

[TrekMD]

Jan 29, 2013 14:38:02 GMT -5 fury said:

And just for the record, I am NOT releasing any new items at this point. I'm only shipping existing items.

I'm sorry to "hear" that. Your Vectrex games and hardware have always been excellent.

Jan 29, 2013 14:38:02 GMT -5 fury said:

Retrocade, some items are pre-orders, some are not. The newer items are not slowing down Warrior shipments, other factors have been causing those slowdowns.

I hope things get sorted out and that these other factors are nothing major. This stuff, as much as we may like it, is a hobby. It is supposed to be enjoyable.

[fury]

No, they are sorted out now, but I was desperately in need of PCBs for several weeks. It was out of that time, that the Yeti was developed while I was manufacturing Overdrives and Starblasts. And yes, those are still shipping. I know for a fact, and understand that most people don't realize how difficult and time-consuming it is to manufacture just 1 controller by hand. I've gotten the Starblast time down to an hour, if everything goes right. The Yetis are my best controller, but are an absolute horror to build (anyone that's received one, take a peek inside the bottom panel and you'll know what I mean). The other controllers are about 3 hours each. May not seem like a lot by itself, but when you multiply that times dozens and dozens, it's actually terrifying. So some people ask, why release more items? Well, most people say, I'm glad you have the creative desire to release more items. Either way, the decision has been made that aside from the pending release of Hellhole/Vectrosis, no other items will be released until the second half of 2013. I want to concentrate on filling orders only, and it will take me some time still to get through all of these.

Anyway, desfeek's email wasn't full of curse words or anything belligerent like that, but it was full of red flags. Phrases like "my hard-earned money" when we're talking about $200 suggests to me that I'm affecting someone's livelihood. Then he said "I am sick of the push-backs and excuses". Some people think that's ok to do, but it's not ok to be disrespectful because I'm late on shipping your order. When you go to sleep at night, I'm in my garage building your controllers. "...finish all the projects you started before making new ones". I'm sorry, but I get emails every week, and as Mayhem mentioned it goes really smoothly almost always. I have a great customer in Belgium who is at his wits end with me, but he just got a Starblast and everything is coming together on his shipments. We've both remained friendly and civil in emails. I've never once considered refunding him.

Bottom line is. and I make this clear all the time in emails, you can request a refund at any time. I'm not holding your money. You will lose your place, and in cases like Warrior, never get back in on it. Same is true with Yetis. I don't believe these will be available again, sorry to say. They are killing me...but they are great controllers

[desfeek]

"My hard-earned money" We are talking about my livelihood. I am a 22 year old student. My Vectrex purchases are the full extent of my personal wealth.

The full quote was, "You're a creative guy, and I truly appreciate the work you do - but honestly I am sick of the push-backs and excuses." The PCB issue is completely understandable - but hasn't this been the issue for almost a year now? We got an email Christmas day stating you were going through a 'three-week processing frenzy'. I guess I took that to mean the PCBs were in-hand.

I also bought a Starblast...it came quickly, and without any troubles. I posted a favorable review, even (Found here: vectorgaming.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=vectrex&action=display&thread=430 ). I don't see how mine and Mat's situation differs. And why is he at his wit's end with you?

I explicitly said in my email I was not after a refund. Now, I have 'lost my spot' out of spite.

EDIT: Format

[desfeek]

Here's my "scathing" email, in its entirity, edited for privacy's sake:

Hello George,

Over a month after this update, I still haven't heard anything about
my three items I pre-ordered from you. On [date omitted], it will be two
years since I paid you for Warrior. The Vectrosis Spinner, due out in
the next three days, I paid for on [date omitted], over 6 months ago.
The Overdrive controller, which your website says is available, just
wait 4-6 weeks, I paid for 5 months ago on [date omitted].

I hate to be a bother, because I understand you're a one-man show.
But please, finish sending out your back orders before producing more
Yeti controllers or other projects. It is kind of ridiculous to
constantly introduce things you've been working on, when you could
have been putting together the stuff I paid my hard-earned money for.
You're a creative guy, and I truly appreciate the work you do - but
honestly I am sick of the push-backs and excuses.

To be clear - I am not asking for a refund, nor am I asking for my
order to be 'pushed ahead'. I would like to know solid shipping
dates. I would like you to finish all the projects you started before
you start new ones.

Thanks,

-Jasper

----

And George's reply:

Jasper, I've just sent you a full refund on all pending orders.

Sincerely,
George

[gliptitude]

Ah man, these boards have been unfortunately quiet for a week or more. I was hoping a more fun topic than this would break the silence.

desfeek, I guess you are posting here because of the unfortunate outcome (refund), as opposed to just the delay in shipment (which has already been discussed in past threads). Perhaps he misunderstood, as someone else already mentioned, or perhaps he was put off by something in your email. ... Maybe you can patch things up with him and reclaim you place in line?

I'd venture to say that I am friends with George and I too have been waiting a long time for Warrior. I may not have been waiting as long as you, but I expect that you will get yours before I do because I am pretty far down the line (#134). I've forgotten about the $70 I spent on it and I am only waiting for my game to be ready.

I think it's a bit awkward, (perhaps unavoidable), having these kind of issues in such a small community, especially in this instance where fury is an active member. ... I for one am grateful to have actual programmers and others here with direct insight into Vectrex homebrew production. His presence here lends a lot of legitimacy to this forum, and I feel that I've benefited directly from that, that I'm not wasting my time here and that I have a good chance of contributing new material for Vectrex, BECAUSE OF GEORGE PELONIS.

In considering the occasional difficulty in acquiring new Fury Unlimited Vectrex loot, I also consider that George is among the most accessible people who still make this stuff. He responds to his emails and he has several games immediately available that you can buy today and receive next week. There are only a handful of Vectrex programmers who remotely resemble either of those traits. There are others who still advertise products on their websites, but appear to completely ignore any inquiry. And still others who seem to have completely vanished.

More along the lines of these Warrior/Vectrosis/Overdrive issues you are having, I have noticed in the past that Madtronix still had paying customers waiting for 3D glasses, at least at some point subsequent to him ceasing to take orders (it is near impossible to tell when from his site). He posted an update many months ago saying that Madtronix would be back in business soon, and last I checked nothing has since updated. I think I remember his update stated his intentions to make the 3D glasses available again. But is that really going to happen? We don't know much about this guy and there is not much history to indicate whether or not his plans will come to fruition. It's only a possibility.

With George I think you can be certain you will get what you pay for. His ability to make and distribute this stuff is firmly established. The existence of each of these items has been confirmed by others, but the particular ones assigned to you do not exist yet. I think you can rest assured that his desire to relieve himself of these obligations (by completing shipment) is almost as strong as your desire to receive the items.

You're kind of a partner in a very special business venture (which is really not commercially viable) and the end product is a very exclusive niche. It's just a lot harder to make a Vectrex game than it is to play one.

[desfeek]

Now glip, I am not criticizing George's availability, production quality, nor his output.

To compare Madtronix and Fury, Madtronix doesn't promise anything, he doesn't post anything. You have one vague sentence on one shoddy website, not much to get excited about.

Fury has numerous unfilled promises, deadlines, and advertisements. Even here in this thread he is stating there may never be any more Yeti controllers. How long were those even available? 18 hours?

Madtronix is a terrible comparison anyway. Let's look at Kristof - who didn't even start taking orders for Vector Pilot until he had 150 finished copies waiting for shipment.

Anyway, its not even about comparing programmers, hobbyists, etc. It is simply my problem with Fury creating false rarity, and being the self-appointed judge as to whose collections are complete and whose aren't.

[Deleted]

George doesn't like if people criticize him, his products, or his processes. And sometimes he even takes measurements. People have to cope with this.

[gliptitude]

Jan 29, 2013 16:56:01 GMT -5 desfeek said:

Now glip, I am not criticizing George's availability, production quality, nor his output.

I'm not criticizing anybody's anything. I bring these things up to put your issue in perspective. This is a very lively and productive scene and George is probably as much responsible for that as anybody. In terms of the Vectrex dream, George has DELIVERED.

Jan 29, 2013 16:56:01 GMT -5 desfeek said:

To compare Madtronix and Fury, Madtronix doesn't promise anything, he doesn't post anything. You have one vague sentence on one shoddy website, not much to get excited about.

I'm not singling anyone out for negative things, just trying to put it in perspective again. Certainly not getting excited about anything. ... But I take the great volume of George's work to be evidence of fulfillment, not a lack of fulfillment. It's significantly in his favor that he has produced so much, and in such great numbers.

Jan 29, 2013 16:56:01 GMT -5 desfeek said:

Madtronix is a terrible comparison anyway. Let's look at Kristof - who didn't even start taking orders for Vector Pilot until he had 150 finished copies waiting for shipment.

Kristoff is great.

Jan 29, 2013 16:56:01 GMT -5 desfeek said:

Anyway, its not even about comparing programmers, hobbyists, etc. It is simply my problem with Fury creating false rarity, and being the self-appointed judge as to whose collections are complete and whose aren't.

huh?

............

Just saying that we are a part of something special here, and that it is difficult for all of this to happen. That George made more specific promises than others does not significantly detract from his contribution. As frustrating as it is to experience this series of delays, we should still be happy about what has been accomplished and hopeful for what is coming.

It really sucks that you lost your place on the items you were waiting for. I'm sorry that was the outcome.