Idea Peddle - Vectrex Game Boy

[gliptitude]

Heh, so this won't be worth much as an idea, seeing as I have no kind of ability to build such an item. But looking at the bitmap graphics of Debris, it occurs to me that it could be possible to display Game Boy graphics on Vectrex.

I think it would be sweet to have a Vectrex Game Boy Player!

I am imagining a miniaturized version of the SNES or NES 101 toploader, which would have a cart slot for original Game Boy games. This mini console would have it's own processor and a cord coming out the back which would plug into the Vectrex. Perhaps the unit would have a single controller port, to use original NES pads.

... I haven't looked closely enough to see if Debris or other bitmap Vectrex games have the variations in brightness which would equate to the (narrow) grey scale of the Game Boy. But certainly Vectrex graphics in general have the ability to display a range of dim to bright.

The square Game Boy screen would just display in the center of the vertical rectangle monitor of Vectrex, and be significantly larger than the original LCD screen. ... I think it ought to have a switchable "inverted" display option, to reverse light and dark graphics.

I suppose this would fall under the category of over the top novelty for most folks, since there would be no vector graphics involved and since it would probably be a difficult project. ... Maybe a simpler set up could just involve an unmodified Game Boy, using the link port plugged into a device that somehow communicates with Vectrex.

Just another silly idea I have indulged myself in.

... I had also imagined a Game Boy EMULATOR for Vectrex, just a software package. (Holy crap! - maybe distributed on a Vectrex cart which itself would have a Game Boy cart slot in it!). But thought probably there are too many limitations to the Vectrex processor and system to do this. ... Many other consoles have emulators made to run on them, but of course Vectrex is such a unique system. Game Boy would be the only console I could think of to run on it, in terms of graphics, since it is just grey scale. But I presume Game Boy is more advanced computing than Vectrex, and also uses a different system with separate graphics and program processing.

... What about Adventure Vision! Could we emulate that on Vectrex?

Sorry. Somebody stop me.

[VectorX]

^No one should do that, it makes for interesting discussion!

[gliptitude]

Heh heh, thanks.

I do see now that there is a Game Boy emulator for the MSX computer, which was only produced about a year after Vectrex. But the MSX has the same Z80 processor that Game Boy is based on.

Also Game Boy emulators for some Texas Instruments graphing calculators. But those have motorola 68000, which is more advanced than Vectrex's 6809.

... I suppose in the instance of Vectrex games with bitmap graphics, it is never the case that the entire frame is filled with "pixels", the way it is on Game Boy.

[50TBRD]

I can't comment of the capabilities of the Vectrex but anything that increase the playability or functionality or the Vectrex is a good thing in my book. What if there was an adapter that could double or quadruple the game library of the Vectrex?

[binarystar]

I don't think there would be any way to quickly and easily emulate the gameboy hardware on vectrex. they are just too different, vector display vs raster display, gameboy has 4 channel sound, vectrex has 3. not to mention just emulating the raster display would probably take up most of the processor time.

one thing i have been thinking about is remaking a few old game and watch / vfd era electronic games on the vectrex, could look great in vector and the programming would be minimal.

[VectorX]

^Hey, that sounds interesting! Might as well, especially with the upcoming racing game that is based on an old Atari coin-op.

[gliptitude]

Well, according to wikipedia:

"GB-Z80:
The chip used inside the Super Game Boy peripheral possessed a core identical to the Z80-derived CPU in the handheld Game Boy. Because the Super NES was not powerful enough for software emulation of the Game Boy, circuitry equivalent to an entire handheld console had to sit inside of the cartridge."

and:

"The Super Game Boy actually consists of the same hardware as the Game Boy; inside the cartridge is a separate CPU that processes the games while the Super NES only provided means for user-input, output of graphics to the screen, and the additional coloring, similar to the Atari 5200 version of the Atari 2600 adapter."

... So perhaps the Vectrex version could be built around the "Super Game Boy" device, since these already exist and are cheap and plentiful. Best case scenario the Vectrex device could just be a modular add on to an unmodified Super Game Boy.

The "border" graphics of the Super Gameboy display would have to be eliminated somehow.

[wyldephang]

Has a raster-to-vector direct conversion ever been done before? I'm not familiar with the technology, but I'm thinking it'd be difficult to reproduce the Game Boy graphics on a Vectrex machine. If someone could figure it out, it'd be an excellent idea; the Game Boy library consists of some of the best handheld titles on the market. Link's Awakening or Metroid II on a Vectrex would be worth the price of admission alone!

[gliptitude]

Jul 23, 2013 20:08:19 GMT -5 wyldephang said:

Has a raster-to-vector direct conversion ever been done before?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, or what an affirmative answer would be. The model of "raster graphics on Vectrex" that I have already mentioned is Debris. There is also YASI. Debris is an original game and YASI is a Space Invaders clone, but no NOT a "direct conversion". Both games use the vector display to simulate MONOCHROME raster graphics.

I seem to also remember seeing documentation of an old project for a Vectrex GUI OS, which demonstrated the display of bitmap image files.

As far as direct emulation of raster video games on Vectrex, I have no reason to believe this has ever been done. However, if it were to be done the candidates would be limited to MONOCHROME graphics consoles, which are very few, (Game Boy, Adventure Vision and ?).

Jul 23, 2013 20:08:19 GMT -5 wyldephang said:

I'm not familiar with the technology, but I'm thinking it'd be difficult to reproduce the Game Boy graphics on a Vectrex machine.

If this Vectrex Game Boy worked the way the Super Game Boy device works, the Vectrex would not be executing the game program. This would be done by the Z80 processor on the device. ... So unlike Debris, where the Vectrex is processing everything (complex graphics AND hectic game program), the Vectrex would only be performing graphics display.

Obviously I don't really know how this would work, what the Game Boy device could be made to output or how the Vectrex could be made to interpret it. But based on the precedent of the bitmap graphics in Debris and the model of the external game processor (Super Game Boy), I just think that this would be possible, (for the super talented and motivated individual who has an unlimited amount of time on his hands).

... An Adventure Vision Vectrex emulator or device would seem to be a more justified and possibly more reasonable project. Justified since so few have access to this obscure and fragile console. More reasonable (?) because it has a lower resolution and a more narrow range (zero?) of grey scale than Game Boy, and is an older machine, more contemporary with the Vectrex. ... But for a useful Adventure Vision emulator the games would really have to be accessed as ROMs, since the original games are not only RARE and expensive, but also of such a strange mechanical design.

[binarystar]

I dont think your idea about using a 'super gameboy' cart could work at all. The super gameboy essentially runs a game on gameboy hardware then passes the video to be displayed through the super nintendo. The problem is the vectrex has a vector display, not a raster so something like this would not be possible. Emulating a rsater display would not be possible.

If you want emulation of another system on Vectrex, look at Chip8. I doubt anything much more than that could be emulated on Vectrex.

[binarystar]

www.revival-studios.com/?page=33

[vectrexmad]

Jul 25, 2013 2:02:09 GMT -5 binarystar said:

I dont think your idea about using a 'super gameboy' cart could work at all. The super gameboy essentially runs a game on gameboy hardware then passes the video to be displayed through the super nintendo. The problem is the vectrex has a vector display, not a raster so something like this would not be possible. Emulating a rsater display would not be possible.

If you want emulation of another system on Vectrex, look at Chip8. I doubt anything much more than that could be emulated on Vectrex.

I guess you know that a V-Chip Chip 8 emulator was already written for the Vectrex in 2007 although never released.

see Revival Studios website: www.revival-studios.com

[KQ]

Yeah, that was what I was referring to (i linked it in the fllowing post). Revival Studios struggled to get chip8 converted across, I think anything beyond that would be impossible imo.

[gliptitude]

Jul 25, 2013 2:02:09 GMT -5 binarystar said:

I dont think your idea about using a 'super gameboy' cart could work at all. The super gameboy essentially runs a game on gameboy hardware then passes the video to be displayed through the super nintendo. The problem is the vectrex has a vector display, not a raster so something like this would not be possible. Emulating a rsater display would not be possible.

I don't understand why raster in and of itself is a deal breaker if Chip 8 has been emulated to some extent and if Debris is capable of simulating raster graphics.

That being said though, I finally got a copy of Debris yesterday and see that it is not as fast or hectic as I thought. The Astrododge game which has more objects on screen (in early levels at least) has a lot of flicker and slow down on my machine.

Chip 8 I have never played, but looking at images it looks like it is simpler graphics than Game Boy and that large portions of the game screens are often blank (black). Game Boy games demand the entire array of pixels from frame to frame it seems.

... However this image demonstrates to me that it is at least instantaneously possible to display a single frame of Game Boy graphics:



That image was taken from this page:

www.revival-studios.com/vectrexos/vectrexos.html

... where it is claimed that a variety of bitmap images can be displayed.

[gliptitude]

And here is an image of an actual Game Boy displaying on an OSCILLOSCOPE:



Taken from this page, which gives details of the setup:

flashingleds.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/nintendoscope/