New game: Cavern Rescue

[8-Bit Waves]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be greedy. Take it as a compliment that we all want more.

The rotation speed is really my main issue. If I'm the only one then it is likely not a real issue.

[D-Type]

"Box it, ship it!", as my old boss would say, when we were developing embedded systems and it looked like something was working.

Now I want to have a quick play of your game...maybe tonight!

[scotthuggins]

Thanks, Malban, for the brutally honest thoughts on it all. All along the way you have always been brutally honest. If you didn't have any interest, you wouldn't bother saying your thoughts in the first place (starting many years ago), so thank you!

I've decided to take the shortest path possible to the finish at this point. Here's what I'm gonna focus on...some of these are done, the others I am going to try and make them fit:

* The hi-score doesn't work as explained in the on-screen instructions.
It does now. It was in flux (I was trying to make it even more robust with joysticks) and now its back to the way it was. Button 1 and 2 are in play, no more joystick. It seems much more solid now. So, the several that reported this should see it working much better in next version.

* The rotation of the player ship is too fast (3 people said it, limitzer0, not just you).
I slowed it down by about 20%. I'm not sure what I think of it (good or bad). The latest one (not posted above yet, likely tomorrow) will have this for people to try out.

* More levels / variations on existing levels (4 people mentioned it)
I'm not going to do it at all. At this point, making the game play rock solid is what I've decided to focus on. Bugs, yes. Big enhancements, no. It's the responsible thing to do.  I guess Malban is right in that it's somewhat of a miracle it's gotten this far given the "newbie" design choices I made.

* The re-spawning of enemy doesn't always result in the enemy appearing.
the animation that looks like Defender arcade when the "landers" appear on the screen - the formation animated sequence is buggy. The animation ends and no enemy appears. I'm going to fix that.

* I think your Cavern Rescue would be a good candidate for the next Vector War.
Sounds good to me!

* Controls screen: Short display time
On the attract screen (title screen) the Controls page (what buttons and joystick movements do what) is only there for 3 seconds...it was suggested by two people to let it linger longer. Yea, I agree and will do that.

* The text characters look good on a GCE Vectrex, but looks pretty awful on a MB Vectrex.
Since the print_str bios routine is a little different on GCE machine than MB machine...I forced that routine to use the GCE version to fix this bug.  

* When the ship re-appears after death, sometimes I had an enemy already sitting on top of the location appearance
Yep - fixed.


* The title tune is garbled. Also in some parts later, the melody sound gets garbled.
Yep, it sure does...and it was an accident, but it's quirky and I like it (LOL).  It's staying in. Several people pointed that out - but I think it makes it unique.



Well, that's it for now.  I will upload a new version of the game (third post of this thread) soon when I get these items addressed.

PS: now that I've had more time to digest Malban's thoughts...  overworking things to the point of "analysis paralysis" and making it a real chore to continue is a dangerous thing: you could get frustrated or burned out and quit.  I've done that before and it's a huge regret - especially when you've worked so hard to make something substantial but, ultimately, not going to be finished.I definitely don't want that.

[minsoft]

I had a few goes on Cavern Rescue last night...I really liked it! It fits right in with some of the original games with the 'rotate + thrust' controls. Love the rotating/scaling cavern at the beginning of the levels.

Someone else mentioned it but one thing I did not like is how the ship stops when you collect the orb. I would prefer if it didn't do that, and the physics just continued as normal. It would make it slightly harder arguably but I don't think that is a bad thing.

Re the rotation speed...I found it ok generally (possibly slightly too fast) but in the bonus level it felt much too fast. I am not sure if it is different in the bonus level, or if it just feels quicker as there is not so much being drawn.

I noticed the bug where sometimes it looks like an enemy will spawn but doesn't...sounds like you're fixing this.

Nice work!

[scotthuggins]

The speed of the rotation and the thrust are both 2x faster in the Orb Challenge screen....that was on purpose. Lemme ease it back by 25% to see how it feels. Thanks for trying it and giving feedback.

...now back to my list (it's getting shorter).

[scotthuggins]

Hello!

I posted an update (link is the same - it's posted in the third message above in this thread). Here's what has changed:

* The hi-score doesn't work as explained in the on-screen instructions.
It does now. I used your suggestion: when pressing button #2 to "accept" the letter you are on, I wait until you lift up your finger from button #2 before it accepts another button press.  It totally fixed the issue where button #2 would scoot across all letters and then it's done.


* The rotation of the player ship is too fast
This might be the biggest difference maker of this update.  I slowed down the rotation speed by 25%. I cannot believe how much better it is. When it was mentioned (by 3 or 4 people) I thought it sounded like a terrible idea. But since so many suggested it, I  figured what the heck.  It's much smoother and easier to control as you are being chased by enemies. It's much more "precise" now!  Also, I did the same on the ORB Challenge level (both of them).  Slowed the rotation and the thrusting speed for this level.
I attached (above) an OrbOnly.bin file. Download that and try it - the ONLY screen you can play on that version is the Orb Challenge screen - over and over (endless). PS: there are 3 different orb layouts that are chosen at random. I also slowed down the timer bar by 25%.  The better controls and longer time limit on Orb Challenge WILL make it easier to get all of them (and get the big bonus).

* The text characters look good on a GCE Vectrex, but looks pretty awful on a MB Vectrex.
Fixed - it'll look the same on both versions of the machine.

* The re-spawning of enemy doesn't always result in the enemy appearing.
That is fixed now - and it came out pretty cool looking. When you shoot an enemy (or it collides with cavern walls), it is respawned with the animation so you now can see where he will appear.

Other things improved/fixed:

* the hi score is saving (6 digit hi score) to $cbeb - so that means it will be compatible for use with Vextreme. Hi scores will be permanently saved and then re-loaded when the game is played at a later date.

The biggest thing is the slower rotation - the game play experience is more than 50% better overall than before (imho). That small tweak improved the "feel" of the game overall so much. It's more fun to scoot along thru the tight sports on the caverns because the control of you ship is so tight. Before, it seemed like it was missing something in general. This fixed that.

Again, attached on message #3 are two files:
* CavernRescue_01-28-23.bin (full game)
* OrbOnly.bin (you can play just the Orb Challenge)

Thanks again for being a part of this! The feedback you all have given has really made this game evolve.

Coming soon:

* I found it weird that 1 pauses, but doesn't unpause. Left or Right unpause.
I will be fixing this. Many have said the game's Pause implementation is confusing.  I agree...and will fix that.

* The instructions screen (attract screen) is too short for the part that shows the controls and also would be good to have a hi score table - to be able to take a picture of your score. 
I have decided to lengthen the time on each of the screens during the title screens (attract mode).  Good suggestion.





 

[nexus6]

Nice! The slower rotation and the respawning-animation brings the game further forward. These are the small things, that makes a different. The gameplay feels more polished now.

[hcmffm]

Jan 26, 2023 7:10:08 GMT -5 minsoft said:

...

Someone else mentioned it but one thing I did not like is how the ship stops when you collect the orb. I would prefer if it didn't do that, and the physics just continued as normal. It would make it slightly harder arguably but I don't think that is a bad thing.

...

Same here. Flipping of the player's ship is against physics and doesn't feel right.

I'll download and play the new version, tonight. Thank you very much, Scott, for giving people the chance to provide feedback and putting more effort into the game. Decide yourself what you change and what you don't change - testers are always demanding - Malban knows this well. ;-)

[scotthuggins]

>Same here. Flipping of the player's ship is against physics and doesn't feel right.

There are now 5 different folks that have said it. I worked so hard to get the ship to "stop" and flip towards the exit. It felt so smooth, polished and slick to me. LOL! But, if that many feel this way, I will let the player ship continue on its way, naturally. You will notice the perils though: especially on Cavern #2 and #3. Any kind of velocity will propel your ship right into the cavern (and death) as the orb is right next to the cavern wall. Once you are aware of it, it'll be fine though...you will know to be careful. I can see the point in both sides of the argument.

Thanks again for your input!

[playvectrex]

Honestly, people are going to regret you changing the flipping ship part in Vector War, because it's the thing that allows you to get a higher score! Personally I say keep the flip, it's good. It could help if everything paused for a second while your ship rotated as an animation with a sound to help sell the fact that you got it and you're getting out.

On the 01-28-23 update, I completed the game on the second try with a total score of 43,075. Got all of the orbs as well on the second bonus stage, with time to spare and was flying around a bit. I definitely feel like the steering is easier.

The high score screen still got me though, as I was trying to set my name and take a picture and was down to only 8 seconds left to take a picture. Then didn't press button 2 before it timed out and was left with BA again instead of BAW Would be cool if it timed out and just entered whatever was selected for your letters.

I played the OrbsOnly and that steering seemed really twitchy and it took me like 7 attempts before I could get all orbs, but did do it.

[D-Type]

Not played the game yet, but if you'd like to see your game in Vector Wars, the player score needs to stay visible afterwards and it has to be recognisable what the game was by what's on the screen.

Too often games take away the score from view soon after the game has finished and everyone curses it because having to have a camera set up ready to take a picture of the score at the end of the game isn't always so easy, especially when playing with the lights down at night.

[playvectrex]

Jan 30, 2023 2:41:15 GMT -5 D-Type said:

Not played the game yet, but if you'd like to see your game in Vector Wars, the player score needs to stay visible afterwards and it has to be recognisable what the game was by what's on the screen.

Too often games take away the score from view soon after the game has finished and everyone curses it because having to have a camera set up ready to take a picture of the score at the end of the game isn't always so easy, especially when playing with the lights down at night.

A version and game mode displayed helps as well.  For example in Rocks n Saucers, there is Arcade Mode and Shooter Mode.  Arcade mode limits your rapid fire to 4 shots, whereas Shooter mode is unlimited... so naturally Shooter mode can have higher scores.  If you do a Competition mode for the game, you'll want to display that at the end... but for the normal 9 levels it seems like there's probably a finite max score you can get based on time to fly and max bonuses... so anything above that would be pretty clearly competition mode

[scotthuggins]

I will post a version tonight or tomorrow where part of the attract screens (the title screen, control, thanks to, etc) will now display something like this for 5 seconds, and then go back into the other title screens you see now.



I was thinking something like this for 5 seconds (centered on the screen). That'd make it easy to take a picture!

CAVERN RESCUE

HI SCORE

43075

B A W

A small concern is how easy the game is for you and LimitZer0. Maybe I need to amp it up a bit, starting on Cavern #4. That or I need to just accept that you two are elite gamers in general.

[playvectrex]

BTW, previous score of 43,075 I did not use the smart bomb at all. I just played again and completed both bonus levels in one game, but died on level 9 with 42,000 (also no smart bombs used). I had both of my kids play they both got to level 3, but have not mastered the subtleties of navigating turns very well yet FWIW, my daughter said it was awkward that it was turning her around when she got to the orb... but as I've said... it's a strategy to fly into that thing at Mach 1 and turn around get to the exit asap. That's thee way to get a high score, speed and accuracy.

[scotthuggins]

> it's a strategy to fly into that thing at Mach 1 and turn around get to the exit asap.

You summed exactly up why I did it. Anyone truly from the early 1980's era - the way it feels to fly full speed into that orb knowing you will be stopped and turned around is kind of exhilarating, isn't it? It fits in with the "twitchy" feel of classic gaming. I'm a huge fan of twitchy gameplay. I wonder who came up with that stupid phrase? I dunno, but I sure identify with it.

PS: if you end up saying your dog completed Cavern Rescue, I promise I will quit forever. Damn.