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Post by jgkspsx on Nov 5, 2023 14:03:27 GMT -5
I like Spinball more than most, and honestly the physics are relatively good for the era. But I'd also like to point out that the contemporary Video Pinball for the 2600 and Pinball for the INTV had much better physics and feel much more skill-based.
Spinball is very close to being a great 8 bit pinball game but it doesn't quite make it. Nevertheless it's better than LED handhelds, which were very popular at the time. Heck, it's competitive with Sega's pinball game for the Master System released four years later on a much more capable system.
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Post by jgkspsx on Nov 5, 2023 14:13:35 GMT -5
Please verify your scores for a last time and please holler in case a score is missing or something should be wrong. Final ranking in Vector War XIII:[ Herr Professor, my score seems to be missing. I qualified in all but Polar Rescue, Heads Up Game 3, and Vyrzon, so I think I should have been in the final list? But I do see myself on the first post, so maybe this was a copy paste error? Also, you said in a more recent post that I might be confused that my Star Castle score wasn't included... it seems to have been, it was my Polar Rescue score that didn't make the threshold, although I edited it to point that out. Maybe next year! |
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Post by Peer on Nov 5, 2023 14:28:54 GMT -5
I like Spinball more than most, and honestly the physics are relatively good for the era. But I'd also like to point out that the contemporary Video Pinball for the 2600 and Pinball for the INTV had much better physics and feel much more skill-based. Yes, agreed, but both the 2600 and the INTV had pixel-graphics. Meaning, the layout of the table is stored in the video RAM (the picture you see). Collision checks are easy here. Compute the new position of the ball, and then simply check the color of the pixel at that location. Background color == empty space, different color == there is an obstacle. On a vector machine, like the Vectrex, there is no video RAM. All you have is starting points and end points of vectors. Checking for collisions means recomputing intersections of lines over and over again. And this is computationally difficult and expensive. This is what I tried to explain in my last post. Programming a pinball game for pixel-graphics is a lot easier than for vector graphics. And with that it is also easier to spend more effort on making the physics more accurately. The Spinball programmers had a natural disadvantage here. |
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Post by fruktodlaren on Nov 5, 2023 14:32:21 GMT -5
I'm interested to look back at the past VW competitions and see if I bested any of my previous scores. I have made a big score sheet on a piece of paper where I write down my best scores in ALL games I have competed in on Vectrex. I also put down Lens and Moyus scores there as well. Moyu has beaten me in more than a handfull of games by now. After every Vector War I note all our scores on that paper and add new lines for new games and cross out beaten scores and replace with the better ones. |
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Post by fruktodlaren on Nov 5, 2023 14:41:23 GMT -5
Please verify your scores for a last time and please holler in case a score is missing or something should be wrong. I see that Moyu's last score in Star Castle was accepted even though I posted that submission a few minutes after the competition was over. Well, the timestamp on the actual picture was a few minutes before the end time, so the score depicted in it was achieved before the end time. All scores for Fruktodlaren, Moyu, Len and Måns have been verified against my score paper here and are all accounted for in the final score board. |
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Post by playvectrex on Nov 5, 2023 14:51:24 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing the excel calculations, I think we can simplify it. .. Some notes - actually this matter starts enerving me a bit: - Heads Up soccer was played last year for the very first time in a Vector War. At that time a person suggested to also play GAME 3 because of the different AI - that's why both game 2 and game 3 are played.
- Combined calculation for Heads Up was introduced and used last year, see last year's highscore list. Last year there were numerous players that played just GAME2, you (Brett) were even one of those players.
- At no point in the rules it says that you have to play GAME 2 and GAME 3 to get points.
ATM, I really don't understand your (Brett's) critizising the way the calculation of Heads Up worked. Last year this didn't bother anyone including you. In future Vector Wars this might be changed, but I won't change a calculation method afterwards; a calculation method that had been applied for two Vector Wars, now. Changing calculation method would even change the overall winner of the Vector War XIII which is currently you (Brett). Ok I’ll concede to the official scoring rules. Don’t sweat it. <3 |
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Post by VectorX on Nov 5, 2023 14:55:20 GMT -5
I don’t know how this game was aproved for a release back in the days. If the great video game crash was in full swing (if not it was close to it) then they were just trying to get product out to try to make a buck in the severely collapsing market. There were no other pinball games for the Vectrex (still aren't!) so that filled a void in its library. I'm more curious as to why there were other bugs in other games that hampered gameplay more (in my opinion), such as the cops starting to follow very set patterns in the "infinity" levels of Clean Sweep or the well-known/discussed infinite lives bug in Narzod. Anyway, even though I had to skip participating again this year, even with just reading the posts this contest got to be pretty intense!  Plus with varying accolades on participating, game hints and humor, I kept on hitting the "Like" button over and over. And finally, for those who haven't done so yet, make sure to tip the bartender of hcmffm/Helmut by giving him a Give in his Vec rep on his profile page or at the bottom left on one of his posts for not only holding yet another contest, but also due to it being THE biggest amount of players yet, trying to figure out new rules for Heads Up (or it looks like not as this might've been settled by the time I posted this), etc. |
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Post by hcmffm on Nov 5, 2023 14:55:30 GMT -5
Herr Professor, my score seems to be missing. I qualified in all but Polar Rescue, Heads Up Game 3, and Vyrzon, so I think I should have been in the final list? But I do see myself on the first post, so maybe this was a copy paste error? Problem fixed in the appropriate post, sorry for that. You're 21st with 275pts which is a good result. Also, you said in a more recent post that I might be confused that my Star Castle score wasn't included... it seems to have been, it was my Polar Rescue score that didn't make the threshold, although I edited it to point that out. Maybe next year! Right, it was your Polar Rescue score. This score screwed up the calculation and this is why you were missing in the post but were listed in the highscore list in the initial post. Thank you for participating and feel free to participate next year, again! PS: Occassionally you have to let me know why you call me "Professor". FAIK, Peer ( Peer ) is the only real professor, here.  |
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Post by hcmffm on Nov 5, 2023 14:59:15 GMT -5
Ok I’ll concede to the official scoring rules. Don’t sweat it. <3 This sounds ironic to me which I don't like at all. As an organisator I try to provide a framework with rules. In the end, all players plus me decide on the rules and if there is a majority that want something to be changed I'll do that. E.g. I've enhanced the rules of Vector War XIII to resolve draws which was requested by you (Brett) - I assume you remember. And few years ago I've changed rules so that even non-original controllers can be used even though I wasn't really happy about this for various reasons. That's just two examples and be sure that I try best to please everyone. This calculation method for Heads Up has been used for two weeks of playing - one week of Vector War XII and a second week in Vector War XIII. In VW XII you were even one of those players getting points for playing just one game. Changing the calculation method in the way you suggested will cleary kick you off your #1 position - that's for sure and I guess you are aware of that. What do you want me to do, Brett, more than 20 hours after the end of Vector War XIII? |
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Post by fruktodlaren on Nov 5, 2023 15:05:36 GMT -5
If need should arise for a "second" first prize, I am up for that, given that I get access to the other 50% of the material needed. Just saying. Yes, I am quoting myself here. |
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Post by Vorkosigan on Nov 5, 2023 15:15:43 GMT -5
The academy game that seemed most popular was Wet Cat. I can see why, but it's too damn frustrating for me. But, that's just me complaining because I'm not good at it. I must have played that one 200 times. I hear that the platforms move side-to-side later in the game along with other unique new gameplay twists - Wet Cat reminds me of Get the beer from two years ago, played in VW XI. A platformer with similar and very creative physics. Peer Did the Wet Cat programmer inspired there, Peer? I like those games a lot and I will play Wet Cat more for sure. Your Cavern Rescue has been another highlight for me in hardcore mode, because there is also no mistake allowed or you have to begin anew. And last but not least, I appreciated Fortress of Narzod, Tee Time, Happy Bird and Polar Rescue a lot. In Polar Rescue I tried to battle as many enemy subs as possible when they appeared on the sonar before rescuing the first survivor pod. By going after the enemy subs instead of trying to avoid them it is possible to surprise them before they go into battle mode. And I had the impression that they become much harder to battle with every rescue of a survivor pod. My best score with that strategy has been 61.000 points, but not the nearly 100k of Brett. Maybe you can contribute with more hints, playvectrex? And I'd like to join the "We hate Heads Up"-Group. 🤣 |
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Post by Chainsaw on Nov 5, 2023 16:33:36 GMT -5
scotthuggins Oh thanks for the hint for VecDrift. I didn't notice, that you can stop the car moving by pressing another key again. Thanks. What I hate is in the phases when the steering is "swapped", that button 1 is only acting like button 2, and button 4 like button 3 and no switching of 2 lanes at once is possible. But this is also mentioned in the manual, and no bug. But I see in the manual the fog / rain / oil icons and descriptions are mixed up. But yeah, VecDrift was also one of my favourites during Vector War, and also Wet Cat. Peer (The real Professor): Thanks for the Spinball info, will try this out. hcmffm (No Professor, but Vector War specialist and organisator number 1) and what other people wrote: Yeah, I forgot this, that coding a pinball game on the Vectrex is more difficult than on a pixel based system, especially one with video ram, or if the video/graphic chip even has some built in collision detection functions. The topic is very interesting. So many other great topics here, but I cannot answer to everybody. Error... Memory overflow... I'm not sure, if it was Brett or anybody else who wrote last year (or some years ago): The Vectorgaming board / Vectrex board is not only open during the Vector War. I will try to remember it, and hope, Vectrex small talk like I do it sometimes is allowed :-) Sure it is, or the other board members will tell me if I start to get boring (just kidding.) Edit: Here what I mentioned about the swapped icons in the VecDrift manual. But no problem for me :-) Seems now I start also beta testing manuals, not only games, websites or ERP systems. Puhh I should play more Vectrex instead doing other stuff ;-) But yeah, for new players that read manuals, this could be confusing 
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Post by jgkspsx on Nov 5, 2023 18:44:50 GMT -5
PS: Occassionally you have to let me know why you call me "Professor". FAIK, Peer ( Peer ) is the only real professor, here. Oh my goodness! I of all people have been confusing my consonant usernames! Well, you'll always be a professor to me |
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Post by 8-Bit Waves on Nov 5, 2023 20:48:13 GMT -5
Congratulations to the podium players and a huge thanks to Helmut! hcmffm - We all very much appreciate your efforts to run this competition every year. I don't think most realize how much work it can be. I hope one day you will let us donate to your efforts with a simple buymeacoffee link or something similar. My son (MooMcCowson) enjoyed qualifying this year. Some of the games were a challenge for him so he was proud to qualify. |
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Post by playvectrex on Nov 5, 2023 22:43:11 GMT -5
I'm more curious as to why there were[n't] other bugs in other games that hampered gameplay more (in my opinion), such as the cops starting to follow very set patterns in the "infinity" levels of Clean Sweep or the well-known/discussed infinite lives bug in Narzod. In this competition, this bug affected two people (that I know of). They recognized the issue though and didn't submit their scores. I also encountered an issue in Polar Rescue that would continuously play the explosion sound and kind of lock my sub up. I had a good score and many extra lives a few times, and had to power cycle the vectrex. Good practice though for the 99995 game, which never locked up thankfully. In Polar Rescue I tried to battle as many enemy subs as possible when they appeared on the sonar before rescuing the first survivor pod. By going after the enemy subs instead of trying to avoid them it is possible to surprise them before they go into battle mode. And I had the impression that they become much harder to battle with every rescue of a survivor pod. My best score with that strategy has been 61.000 points, but not the nearly 100k of Brett. Maybe you can contribute with more hints, playvectrex ? The best advice I can give is don't die. You don't have to get to the pods fast... you have to destroy a lot of subs, and not die. Some tips: 1. If you dive too deep or pilot too fast you will burn your oxygen faster, and also no enemy subs will catch you. Can be good at times to go fast, but generally not. 2. Keep heading towards the general direction of the pod, and if you get there... great... another 5k points if you rescue them. But if not, you'll be battling plenty along the way. 3. Find a tactic/strategy that works reliably to avoid the enemy torpedoes... this is how you "don't die". 4. I believe you must really use the radar to your advantage and spot subs that are coming up on you and turn and face them. Watch out for surprise torpedo attacks. 5. Pretty sure the closest sub on the radar is the one you want to engage with... it seems to be the easiest to kill. 6. The rescue pods tend to be near the surface, so if you get there and you can't seem to find it... you are probably too deep. 7. There are some tricks to fast docking ... try different things and you will find a strategy here that works well. Sometimes I've had it engage instantly very rarely... other times it takes a bit of work. Watch out for floating mines near the pod... you can surface up into them. You might have to blow them up from a distance first... I died once to this, but other times it was ok... just depends on how close the mine is to the pod. 8. Try to fight some subs when your air supply is half way down... so you can air back up and keep going towards the pods. 9. Profit With my 99995 score, I think I only rescued 3 pods total... so most of the time you are engaging in battles. I also don't think it lets you find the pod until you battle enough subs... or it might just be eventually you get there. But you need to battle a lot to get air supply, to be able to get there anyways. |
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Plus with varying accolades on participating, game hints and humor, I kept on hitting the "Like" button over and over.
