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Post by Peer on Oct 31, 2024 0:45:41 GMT -5
... But then I had luck in Bedlam (sorryyyy Peer!). At least not far over 200'000 like 4 years ago...
excellwnt bedlam score! @peer will be dissapointed ... Chainsaw, mozie (and all others): Great scores!!! Congratulations!!!
No, I am not disappointed at all  The tournament is just so much fun. Playing, and seeing others play. For the first time since participating, I have temporarily been in 3rd place during the hot phase of the competition, and that is good enough and rewarding enough for me. I only play for the fun (and admittedly only those games I find the most fun in), and just I cannot bring myself to strategically maxing certain scores in certain games just to improve the ranking. Traditionally, I always ended up somewhere around 6th or 7th place in the past, which would be cool. At least for a rather-programmer-than-gamer old man like me 
Today will be all about Halloween, and I will be going trick-or-treating with the kids. So not much playing from my side. Good luck to you all, game on!
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Post by Peer on Oct 31, 2024 0:50:18 GMT -5
A Crush of Lucifer: 71,650 ... P.S. I'm pretty sure the flickering from this game gives me a headache. There are many interesting details about the code of Crush of Lucifer. One detail is, that all the graphics are drawn unsynchronized (no Wait_Recal calls). The (unstable and varying) framerate is very low. Thus the headache. |
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Post by kiwasabi on Oct 31, 2024 1:12:51 GMT -5
A Crush of Lucifer: 71,650 ... P.S. I'm pretty sure the flickering from this game gives me a headache. There are many interesting details about the code of Crush of Lucifer. One detail is, that all the graphics are drawn unsynchronized (no Wait_Recal calls). The (unstable and varying) framerate is very low. Thus the headache. That's crazy!!! So every single object is literally drawn at a different time, causing an intense flickering effect. I'm sure it's quite effective for hypnotizing someone. Admittedly, it's quite a punishing experience playing A Crush Of Lucifer, especially at the higher levels. I'm really only having fun once I get to the tunnel, and when I'm fighting Lucifer. The rest of the game is so tedious and frustrating with very little reward. It's clear why the game was shelved. By the way, not sure if you saw my comment where I suggested Web Wars may be the most common ancestor to ACOL... however, now having played Polar Rescue a bit, I can say with pretty good certainty that the programmer of Polar Rescue also did A Crush Of Lucifer. With the complex coordinates, gages, pseudo 3d graphics, first person perspective, etc in both games, they seem to be related to me. By the way, I saw you creeping up dangerously close to my Marine Fox score, so I upped the ante. I really got the right items at the right time. That's how I manage to get a slightly higher score than usual sometimes. Most of my games are only like 29,000. Then I have that one where everything goes right and then I get an invincibility item in a later level. This time that happened on level 11 or 12 and it got me to the next level then I died pretty soon after. The quick turn technique works pretty good where you press both left on the joystick and the 1 button simultaneously, or right and button 2 simultaneously. I'm still getting the hang of it but it can get you out of some bad situations. Marine Fox: 40,244  |
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Post by hcmffm on Oct 31, 2024 1:18:34 GMT -5
 Highscore list has been updated - see initial post. Current top 5 ranking: 1. kiwasabi (592pts) 2. mozie (571pts) 3. Chainsaw (548pts) 4. Peer (537pts) 5. Sketcz (514pts) ___ seanf: Welcome to your first Vector War! I wish you good fun playing old Vectrex games and competing with other players. Where are you located (roughly)? @ Roland ( fmml): Congrats for your Polar Rescue score. kiwasabi: Excellent playing. Looks like you're prepared for a strong fight. @ Stefan ( Chainsaw): Brilliant Bedlam score - great! Plus: Clean Sweep is off your table. @ Roland ( nexus6): You really get into Vectrexagon - cool. @ Chris ( Malban): Ah, your playing was not just a pass by. Good Release! score. |
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Post by fruktodlaren on Oct 31, 2024 1:52:48 GMT -5
Player: Måns Clean Sweep: 26810 |
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Post by jbrodack on Oct 31, 2024 1:56:58 GMT -5
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Post by kiwasabi on Oct 31, 2024 2:34:38 GMT -5
Due to the nauseating seizure inducing flicker and slow framerate of A Crush of Lucifer, combined with the exceedingly long game times for 60,000+ point games (over an hour) perhaps the maximum score should be set at 60,000 or 70,000. Playing this the past couple days has not been good for my eyes or my brain. I think at this point if mozie beats my score then I'll probably just let him have it. Dare I say this may be a rare Vectrex game that is more suitable to be played via emulation since the flicker would be eliminated. Also, I would be okay with throwing out the cheesy Star Castle score and playing it for real if everyone else agreed to do the same. |
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Post by nexus6 on Oct 31, 2024 3:30:46 GMT -5
@ Roland ( nexus6 ): You really get into Vectrexagon - cool. Unfortunately I'm too old for this sh*t to beat jbrodack's time. It's such a typical “one more time” game.
Here’s a new score: 158:58
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Post by Peer on Oct 31, 2024 4:40:57 GMT -5
There are many interesting details about the code of Crush of Lucifer. One detail is, that all the graphics are drawn unsynchronized (no Wait_Recal calls). The (unstable and varying) framerate is very low. Thus the headache. That's crazy!!! So every single object is literally drawn at a different time, causing an intense flickering effect... Phrasing it that way is a bit too harsh. The code itself is not bad at all. But computing and displaying the 3D-effect of the grid takes up a lot of CPU cycles. The desirable 30000 CPU cycles per frame result in a 50Hz framerate, which is perceived as flicker-free and pleasant to the eye. If instead 50000 CPU cycles are needed per frame, then this would yield a 30Hz framerate, which can still look okay to the eye, especially if that frame-rate is stable (always the same).
The grid computations in Lucifer needs up ~90000 cycles, corresponding to a mere 16Hz framerate. The actual problem here is that the refresh-counter, which is used in the Vectrex BIOS Wait_Recal() synchronization routine, is a 16-bit counter, and thus can count only up to 65335. So this routine cannot be used for synchronization. Instead of implementing a custom routine for this (e.g. by using a 24-bit counter), the Lucifer code does no synchronization at all. And that is why those 16Hz are not stable and, depending on the gameplay, vary between ~22 to ~16Hz. And that is what makes it unplesant for the eye.
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Post by Peer on Oct 31, 2024 4:50:15 GMT -5
By the way, I saw you creeping up dangerously close to my Marine Fox score, so I upped the ante. I really got the right items at the right time. That's how I manage to get a slightly higher score than usual sometimes. Most of my games are only like 29,000. Then I have that one where everything goes right and then I get an invincibility item in a later level. This time that happened on level 11 or 12 and it got me to the next level then I died pretty soon after. The quick turn technique works pretty good where you press both left on the joystick and the 1 button simultaneously, or right and button 2 simultaneously. I'm still getting the hang of it but it can get you out of some bad situations.
That describes it very well. I like the game a lot, but for my taste there is a bit too much of randomness involved, or being lucky required, for chasing maximum scores. I enjoy the occasional play, but I do not feel like trying it some 30 times in a row just to be lucky and squeeze some more points out of it. |
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Post by kiwasabi on Oct 31, 2024 5:04:14 GMT -5
That's crazy!!! So every single object is literally drawn at a different time, causing an intense flickering effect... Phrasing it that way is a bit too harsh. The code itself is not bad at all. But computing and displaying the 3D-effect of the grid takes up a lot of CPU cycles. The desirable 30000 CPU cycles per frame result in a 50Hz framerate, which is perceived as flicker-free and pleasant to the eye. If instead 50000 CPU cycles are needed per frame, then this would yield a 30Hz framerate, which can still look okay to the eye, especially if that frame-rate is stable (always the same).
The grid computations in Lucifer needs up ~90000 cycles, corresponding to a mere 16Hz framerate. The actual problem here is that the refresh-counter, which is used in the Vectrex BIOS Wait_Recal() synchronization routine, is a 16-bit counter, and thus can count only up to 65335. So this routine cannot be used for synchronization. Instead of implementing a custom routine for this (e.g. by using a 24-bit counter), the Lucifer code does no synchronization at all. And that is why those 16Hz are not stable and, depending on the gameplay, vary between ~22 to ~16Hz. And that is what makes it unplesant for the eye.
Interesting. I realized after I posted this comment that I should have clarified whether it was a computation issue or vector display limitation. So it sounds like with some reworking of the code that the flickering could be minimized, or at least properly synchronized. I had the thought that in its current form that A Crush of Lucifer is almost like a real version of Polybius with its inducing of a hypnotic effect and causing headaches (hopefully it won't cause any nightmares). I would imagine with a better framerate, less flickering, and the addition of analog controls, that A Crush of Lucifer would feel a lot more playable. |
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Post by Peer on Oct 31, 2024 5:10:35 GMT -5
Phrasing it that way is a bit too harsh. The code itself is not bad at all. But computing and displaying the 3D-effect of the grid takes up a lot of CPU cycles. The desirable 30000 CPU cycles per frame result in a 50Hz framerate, which is perceived as flicker-free and pleasant to the eye. If instead 50000 CPU cycles are needed per frame, then this would yield a 30Hz framerate, which can still look okay to the eye, especially if that frame-rate is stable (always the same).
The grid computations in Lucifer needs up ~90000 cycles, corresponding to a mere 16Hz framerate. The actual problem here is that the refresh-counter, which is used in the Vectrex BIOS Wait_Recal() synchronization routine, is a 16-bit counter, and thus can count only up to 65335. So this routine cannot be used for synchronization. Instead of implementing a custom routine for this (e.g. by using a 24-bit counter), the Lucifer code does no synchronization at all. And that is why those 16Hz are not stable and, depending on the gameplay, vary between ~22 to ~16Hz. And that is what makes it unplesant for the eye.
Interesting. I realized after I posted this comment that I should have clarified whether it was a computation issue or vector display limitation. So it sounds like with some reworking of the code that the flickering could be minimized, or at least properly synchronized. I had the thought that in its current form that A Crush of Lucifer is almost like a real version of Polybius with its inducing of a hypnotic effect and causing headaches (hopefully it won't cause any nightmares). I would imagine with a better framerate, less flickering, and the addition of analog controls, that A Crush of Lucifer would feel a lot more playable. Yes and no. The computations are complex, and there is no easy way to make them faster. A proper synchronization to 16Hz is possible. But also a stable 16Hz will still seem flickering to the eye. And yes, I have already done some of those experiments
Adding analog controls would actually make things worse, as analog controls require more CPU cycles than digital controls.
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Post by Sketcz on Oct 31, 2024 5:24:53 GMT -5
There are many interesting details about the code of Crush of Lucifer. One detail is, that all the graphics are drawn unsynchronized (no Wait_Recal calls). The (unstable and varying) framerate is very low. Thus the headache. having played Polar Rescue a bit, I can say with pretty good certainty that the programmer of Polar Rescue also did A Crush Of Lucifer. With the complex coordinates, gages, pseudo 3d graphics, first person perspective, etc in both games, they seem to be related to me. There's a link to my article on the forum here, where I interviewed Mark Indictor (Star Trek, Spinball, Polar Rescue, Mail Plan, Tour de France), and he said he never even heard of ACoL. I also asked Tom Meigs, but had no reply. Mark explained he did several games remotely, not in the office. As for the flickering, that's interesting and unexpected. I suffer from extremely severe photosensitivity - OLED screens induce an intense crippling migraine which can leave me feeling "hungover" the next day (last week tried a Switch OLED for the first time; a few hours before bed, felt ill, woke up thinking I was going to die - repeat tests showed the same severe headaches). But I feel fine with ACoL and the Vectrex in general. One reason I love the system is it doesn't trigger the migraines even after extended playing. I'm sorry to hear it's the opposite for you. You have my empathy. Screen headaches are no joke.  |
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Post by Peer on Oct 31, 2024 5:51:54 GMT -5
... The rest of the game is so tedious and frustrating with very little reward. It's clear why the game was shelved. No. The original Lucifer code indicates that the game was still in a development status. The game was not shelved, its programming was just not continued when the Vectrex was discontinued.
Note that you are not playing the original (development) version that was discovered, but a version which includes modifications and some additional fixes done by Sean Kelly and Chris Malcolm.
Again I have to say no. Web Wars and Polar Rescue were done by different people. Both their codes have not much in common with each other. And both their codes have not much in common with the Lucifer code. The Lucifer code shows some slight orientation at the code of Mine Storm (not just the obvious graphics of the ship and the mines, but functional parts of the code), but we know that Lucifer was not done by John Hall. |
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Post by mozie on Oct 31, 2024 6:22:47 GMT -5
Release 133140 Marine fox 41180   I concur with kiwasabi in future vectorwars if acol is selected scores should be limited as it takes too long to marathon it for scores, also I always go for the second portal per stage giving me more points to collect before entering but this becomes a nessecity after around 5 fields if your location is far from the portal. Today I have not the patience for it again but will try before the end. Today quick games only So very close @peer but I bottled it at the end, great game to play with some headphones on! Very zen like |
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The tournament is just so much fun. Playing, and seeing others play. For the first time since participating, I have temporarily been in 3rd place during the hot phase of the competition, and that is good enough and rewarding enough for me. I only play for the fun (and admittedly only those games I find the most fun in), and just I cannot bring myself to strategically maxing certain scores in certain games just to improve the ranking. Traditionally, I always ended up somewhere around 6th or 7th place in the past, which would be cool. At least for a rather-programmer-than-gamer old man like me 
