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Post by goldenband on Jun 4, 2013 0:01:26 GMT -5
Just a few notes on Dungeons of Daggorath: - It was written for the Tandy CoCo, which has a 6809 processor. (It's since been ported to the PC.) - It's widely considered one of the CoCo's best games (if not the best), and certainly one of its best-known. Here's a YouTube video of the gameplay, though you really have to experience it to get the full effect. - The source code is available. - The game's graphics are vector-based, though they're obviously rasterized in display. You can see the cast of characters in a fan-made (but very accurate) image here. - Though the game uses a text-based action parser, it wouldn't be too hard to adapt to a four-button layout, and the one game feature that requires player text input (INCANTing rings) is a one-shot puzzle that could really be dumped with no loss of gameplay. - More problematic would be recreating the game's distinctive sound effects, which are crucial to the game's atmosphere -- but the CoCo's sound hardware is just a 6-bit DAC, so a little wizardry with the AY-3-8910 could make it feasible. (Oddly enough the CoCo's Speech/Sound Pak also uses an AY-3-8910.) Anyway, it's an ambitious idea, but I think it could work amazingly well on the Vectrex, and it'd certainly offer an experience that'd be very new to the console! |
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Post by VectorX on Jun 4, 2013 8:20:58 GMT -5
Thanks for a bit of info about that. I'd heard about it, but that's as far as I go with it, just title familiarity.
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Post by gliptitude on Jun 4, 2013 11:59:03 GMT -5
Just a few notes on Dungeons of Daggorath: - It was written for the Tandy CoCo, which has a 6809 processor. (It's since been ported to the PC.) - It's widely considered one of the CoCo's best games (if not the best), and certainly one of its best-known. Here's a YouTube video of the gameplay, though you really have to experience it to get the full effect. - The source code is available. - The game's graphics are vector-based, though they're obviously rasterized in display. You can see the cast of characters in a fan-made (but very accurate) image here. - Though the game uses a text-based action parser, it wouldn't be too hard to adapt to a four-button layout, and the one game feature that requires player text input (INCANTing rings) is a one-shot puzzle that could really be dumped with no loss of gameplay. - More problematic would be recreating the game's distinctive sound effects, which are crucial to the game's atmosphere -- but the CoCo's sound hardware is just a 6-bit DAC, so a little wizardry with the AY-3-8910 could make it feasible. (Oddly enough the CoCo's Speech/Sound Pak also uses an AY-3-8910.) Anyway, it's an ambitious idea, but I think it could work amazingly well on the Vectrex, and it'd certainly offer an experience that'd be very new to the console! Thanks for recommending this game over in the AtariAge forum goldenband, and thanks for joining up and sharing this information over here too. You are member number 100!!!!!! I had never heard of this game (it's outside of my current console purview) and even after you recommended it I didn't realize it was as specifically well disposed to Vectrex conversion as you say it is. I just saw that the graphics were vector-like and that it was clearly a different sort of game than anything to date on Vectrex. Perhaps if the SOUND is so important to this game, and you think it might be an issue on Vectrex in that regards, the Vectrex Dungeons of Daggorath could utilize AtariVox+ (VecVox/VecVoice) hardware. ... I'm certain that that feature alone would get this game a lot of notice by Vectrexians. I was happy to see this game get a couple votes, thinking it was among the more obscure candidates. But I guess it's not as obscure as I thought. (Twister, Zoom! and Master of the Lamps still awaiting their first votes..) |
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Post by VectorX on Jun 4, 2013 12:12:18 GMT -5
I just saw that the graphics were vector-like and that it was clearly a different sort of game than anything to date on Vectrex. The Vectrex could definitely use another RPG or two. As I probably mentioned in the "games that should come out" thread, some of the Ultima games or whatever for the Apple II only took up 64K, which would probably be doable (as the Gravitrex Plus cart is 64K). Just come up with some story and traveling around a country or two and getting attacked randomly probably wouldn't be too hard, along with other stuff (gotta have treasures to collect!). And being random would also add to its replay value. (Twister, Zoom! and Master of the Lamps still awaiting their first votes..) I meant to rent Zoom on the Genny, but the only place that had it became a bit of a drive after I have moved back in the day, unfortunately. So I've still yet to play it to this day. |
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Post by gliptitude on Jun 4, 2013 13:26:30 GMT -5
The Vectrex could definitely use another RPG or two. As I probably mentioned in the "games that should come out" thread, some of the Ultima games or whatever for the Apple II only took up 64K, which would probably be doable (as the Gravitrex Plus cart is 64K). Just come up with some story and traveling around a country or two and getting attacked randomly probably wouldn't be too hard, along with other stuff (gotta have treasures to collect!). And being random would also add to its replay value. Ye I remember we were all mostly in agreement that there would be a high demand for games of this nature, "adventure" or "rpg". I've just been looking further into Daggorath and really it is seeming like an outrageously good candidate. Kind of like Vectrex, the copyright owner has made special efforts to preserve the material. He makes the source code available, (for a reasonable fee), with the intent of encouraging others to preserve the game as closely as possible on other consoles/computers. ... In 2001 interview, former president of DynaMicro, (Deggorath developer) Douglas J. Morgan describes the simple graphics (as compared to today's 3D dungeons) as impactful and essential to the drama of this game. HOW AWESOME WOULD IT BE TO SEE THIS IN TRUE VECTOR DISPLAY ON THE MIGHTY VECTREX?! The original program is 8K, so may have even been a possibility in 1982 Vectrex programming conditions! I haven't been able to watch a video or test the game on my PC yet, but it is clearly much more graphics intensive than the "text games" to which you refer. The economy of the program is apparently a marvel and a subject of study for enthusiasts. Read about the game here: iloveglory.freehostia.com/daggorath/This would seem as JUSTIFIED a Vectrex port as I can imagine. ... I wonder though if any of the handful of people with the skills and motivation to see this through might be deterred by the original authors' desire for the game to be reproduced as authentically (unchanged) as possible. I remember Fury commenting that some of the changes and additions to War of the Worlds in his port were necessary for him to maintain his interest and make it his own project. Also we see with many of the ports by all the different Vectrex programmers, most of the games have been changed at least in superficial ways. ... But I've got to imagine that the DynaMicro people would love to see their program survive in any substantial capacity on Vectrex. |
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Post by goldenband on Jun 4, 2013 14:28:35 GMT -5
^Awesome! I'm excited that my suggestion is sparking your imagination too. You should definitely try the game when you get a chance -- ideally on the original hardware, but I think the PC port is quite good (and very accurate).
BTW since the CoCo's audio capabilities are so simplistic, I think the AY-3-8910 is completely capable of duplicating the game sounds, either by recreating them from scratch (procedurally) or, if necessary, by playing back digitized audio.
As for a programmer putting his/her original stamp on things, it could be that that's a deterrent, but OTOH maybe the availability of the source code makes up for that, since my impression is that a fair amount of the work that goes into a port is disassembling the game and figuring out its logic. And in any event, a 100% strict port isn't feasible -- the UI will need to be changed a bit, and the lighting effects will need to be rethought. Another question is whether to implement scaling in player movement (definitely not monster movement, that'd break the game).
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Post by wyldephang on Jun 4, 2013 14:41:35 GMT -5
I wasn't aware the Vectrex could handle RPG games! Clearly, I underestimated its power.  Daggorath would be a worthwhile undertaking, and we could consider ports of Akalabeth, Ultima, and Wizardry. Most of the early dungeon-crawler RPGs made use of wire-frame graphics; the vector transition would be feasible. |
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Post by VectorX on Jun 4, 2013 15:10:21 GMT -5
I wasn't aware the Vectrex could handle RPG games! Dark Tower was finished, but unreleased, although it's available through programmer John Dondzila. The unfinished modern game of Yoehl - Saga of Pathrk can be seen here. |
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Post by gliptitude on Jun 4, 2013 16:15:40 GMT -5
yeah, not sure that Dungeons of Daggorath or Dark Tower really classify as "RPG" either... But certainly they are along the lines of an "adventure" game, ... which we know is named such because of the Atari game ADVENTURE. Also there was a more stylish adventure type game on the VCS called Secret Quest, which I've played in emulation and like a lot. ... I don't see that there would be anything about the 2600 that would make it any better at these type games than Vectrex?
But I would think that the GRAPHICS in Daggorath would be the biggest challenge. From what I understand, getting the graphics to display and be stable is always a huge part of Vectrex game programming, and if Daggorath doesn't present special challenges, it sure does LOOK different than any finished Vectrex game I've seen. ... The closest I can think of is a Chris Solomon Labyrinth demo I tried out recently. This demo has a 3D dungeon mechanic, but turning left and right is not animated, (still haven't actually seen Daggorath in motion though, so not sure if it is fluid either).
Other perspective view Vec games, like Dark Tower and WotW do not exactly render a 3D environment. There's no walls or backgrounds, the effect is just created by scaling individual sprites. ... Maybe Narrow escape is more like the 3D dungeon navigation, but also no turning in that. ... Not sure how Web Wars or Pole Position work.
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Post by jbrodack on Jun 7, 2013 10:49:56 GMT -5
Nethack. Or Rogue or Dungeons of Dredmor. Some kind of roguelike would be awesome. Or any rpg really since it will fill a void in the Vectrex library.
Marble madness would be interesting as well.
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Post by subzero1970 on Jun 8, 2013 3:44:30 GMT -5
I think juno first and tron would work well on the vectrex, space harrier would be great to see but maybe too much on the screen at once for veccy!
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Post by jbrodack on Jun 10, 2013 12:23:06 GMT -5
No one else thinks a vectrex roguelike would be awesome?
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Post by VectorX on Jun 10, 2013 12:56:06 GMT -5
Never played Rogue, but always wanted to. So I can't really say, personally.
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Post by jbrodack on Jun 10, 2013 13:07:55 GMT -5
Ever played diablo? These types of games inspired diablo. Hack and slash dungeon games. Most use an overhead view which would be easier for the vectrex.
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Post by VectorX on Jun 10, 2013 13:37:47 GMT -5
Hadn't played Diablo either...another one I want to  |
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Daggorath would be a worthwhile undertaking, and we could consider ports of Akalabeth, Ultima, and Wizardry. Most of the early dungeon-crawler RPGs made use of wire-frame graphics; the vector transition would be feasible.
