Vector War X - Preparations

[hcmffm]

Oct 31, 2020 7:27:45 GMT -5 Chainsaw said:

Oct 30, 2020 15:26:21 GMT -5 hcmffm said:

Often, the very last day of the Vector War is comparatively calm because people may upload highscores of two games, only. I wonder whether this limitation should be "removed". More frequent (e.g. hourly) score codes could be introduced to ensure that scores are posted right after they have been achieved. Comments? Ideas?

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EDITED SEVERAL TIMES, HCMFFM please read again if you see this notice :-)

In my opinion, we could try once to cancel this limitation of 2 games (at last day)  to look what will happen. How often you should change the codeword then is a good question. Every hour is too often I think, because what if I start f.e. Mine Storm and play this 45 minutes, and then the last codeword is alerady inactive since 30 minutes... Will the score still be valid or not? Maybe change at the end of Friday before you go to bed, and then on Saturday on 12, 18, 20, 22 o clock that scores can not "reserved" in advance.  But just my opinion, we don't have to change this, if all other want to stay with the old rules. Also it would be maybe too late now, that everybody reads / is informed about the new rule, or that we discuss too much about it instead of playing games :-)  so maybe move this idea to next year? But as I said, just my opinion.  ...

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Stefan. I guess I will "remove" the limitation of 2 games on the last day and have 2-4 scores codes throughout the last day. To keep people to playing only on the very last day I might add a rule that on the last day no new participants are allowed.

[hcmffm]

Nov 5, 2020 7:32:01 GMT -5 D-Type said:

Repost of an earlier question that I don't think got answered, but has a big impact on tournament strategy:

Are your 7th-12th highest ranking scores used in the calculation of rankings for those 7-12 games? i.e. you could play more than 6 games to reduce other competitors rankings? Tactical and devious ;-) There are pros and cons to each approach that I haven't thought considered much. ...

A good question, Phil. The answer is: While only 6 highest scores of a player are counted, all scores are counted to determine the rank per game. So: Right, you can reduce other competitors score by playing more than 6 games. You can call it tactical and devious - I'd consider this as some reward for those people who play many different games.

[Chainsaw]

Two topics for next year if there will be another Vector War.

1) I would prefer, that everybody makes pictures of the score in the game over / end screen, instead of the "reset screen" where the game name and high score is shown, because in the "reset screen" are possibilities to show every score that you want if you know how. Also in the game over / end screen, it's often easier to do the picture, because in the reset screen the picture changes after the title music fast to the "player 1 / game 1" screen. And in the game over / end screen, it's often clear which game it is, because game graphics are still are shown there.

Only problem of my idea would be: If the camera is not ready, or battery low, or picture quality bad, then the end screen will disappear after a while, and then only a picture of the "reset screen" could be possible. Otherwise it's every players own responsibility to have the camera ready.

But just a idea and my opinion... I know my self, that for example every score that was shown until now in Vector War X is possible on the Vectrex. And also with my own scores, some people will ask sometimes "How is he doing this??" But consider: What if somebody completly new and unknown would (in theory) join Vector War on Friday, post 6 very high unbeatable scores all in the "reset screen" of the games instead of the game over screen - could we trust this new person or his scores?

2) Maybe the code word should change all 2 days during the complete Vector War, or at least also 1 time in the middle. I think we had this also in the past? Because without this, it's possible that people are "collecting" their scores until Friday (ok, this is clearly NOT forbidden and no problem) but I think Vector War was calm this year until Thursday evening this year, and there were only a lot of scores, because a lot of people were participating?

What's your optinion?

[playvectrex]

Here's my thoughts...

For a game that sits on the end screen for a long time, there's no reason to risk resetting the game to get a picture of the score... and it's all the more proof that you got to the end or a high level with that score. I'd hate to think anyone is cheating... but next year we can require video gameplay proof if we suspect anyone is/has been cheating... however there would need to be help in reviewing because that's a lot to review.

We could probably think of other ways of making it impossible to cheat. The fact is though, it would be super easy to do so... so a clear video of entire game play is the only fool proof way I can think of. Much harder to submit your scores though.

When I see insanely high scores, higher than the ones I fought hard for.. I also do question if they are even possible, but I have to trust no one is cheating or using glitches to win a Vectrex game. And if they are... well, they have to live with the guilt of cheating in a contest that children are playing in now

If I don't place in the top 3... at least I had fun trying... and tuning up my Vectrex machines in the process.

[hcmffm]

Thank you, Chainsaw and playvectrex for sharing your thoughts. I'll definitely take them into account next year.

I've just changed one rule and would like to introduce a new one in this year's Vector War:

Changed rule:

• You can submit an arbitrary number of scores per day. There's one exception; on the last day of the tournament you can submit scores for two games of your choice, only.
  

And the rule I'd like to introduce:

• New players can join the Vector War on any day except the last day of the tournament.

The Vector War is a tournament which last for several days and by this rule I want to keep one-day-players out. What's your first thought/opinion on this additional rule?

[Chainsaw]

I agree with the change, that you can submit scores for more than 2 games at the last day. But I cannot say if it is OK to do this already now this year (only if all agree), or if we have to wait for next year. EDIT: I see, you already decided in the other thread, so for me it is ok. Maybe mention it again after every update of the score table that everybody get this information.

And yes, the other rule (no new players at the last day), I would also agree.

About the cheating and video proof: I started the topic, but otherwise it could be not so easy for everbody to record the whole gameplay. I mean does everybody has a camera or a smartphone with enough memory for this? Or a tripod for recording it. Maybe we can stay with the old rules, or think again about new possibilities, and hope that nobody cheats.

[playvectrex]

I had an interesting idea for the next Vector War. Inspired by the wooden spoon prize being a 2nd to last prize, I think it might be nice to try to create more interest and competition between all of the contestants. What typically seems to happen is a few people get toward the top 3 or so, and become untouchable by all of the rest of the folks. So then for ranks 5 - 26 there is not a lot to motivate them to do better (within their individual skill levels).

So with that in mind, what if there was a prize for #1, #2 and then also for #7, #14, and #21... or something like that. This would hopefully create a lot more competition across the rankings.

Another interesting way to level the playing field for everyone, is to do a random prize drawing (with one of the better prizes) for all odd numbered ranks below #1 and #2... so #3, #5, #7, etc.. Then anyone could be trying to one-up the person above them for great reward.

Or something like that... doesn't have to be exactly those numbers.

---

I wanted to also mention that the ranking algorithm might need to be tweaked. I noticed that I was in 5th place, and I did not submit any further scores and ended up 4th. I'm sure there is a logical explanation for this based on the ranking algorithm, but that doesn't really seem fair .

[Peer]

Nov 16, 2020 13:05:13 GMT -5 playvectrex said:

I had an interesting idea for the next Vector War. Inspired by the wooden spoon prize being a 2nd to last prize, I think it might be nice to try to create more interest and competition between all of the contestants. What typically seems to happen is a few people get toward the top 3 or so, and become untouchable by all of the rest of the folks. So then for ranks 5 - 26 there is not a lot to motivate them to do better (within their individual skill levels).

So with that in mind, what if there was a prize for #1, #2 and then also for #7, #14, and #21... or something like that. This would hopefully create a lot more competition across the rankings.

Another interesting way to level the playing field for everyone, is to do a random prize drawing (with one of the better prizes) for all odd numbered ranks below #1 and #2... so #3, #5, #7, etc.. Then anyone could be trying to one-up the person above them for great reward.

Or something like that... doesn't have to be exactly those numbers.

---

I wanted to also mention that the ranking algorithm might need to be tweaked. I noticed that I was in 5th place, and I did not submit any further scores and ended up 4th. I'm sure there is a logical explanation for this based on the ranking algorithm, but that doesn't really seem fair .

Haha, a price for only every odd place? That is devious! I like it

Maybe a bit too random due to the workings of the ranking algorithm, so a price for only every third place could be more suitable, but I think this idea of playvectrex could indeed keep the competition heated up and everyone giving their best until the very last moment.

Cheers,

Peer

[hcmffm]

Thank you for your ideas and thoughts on making the contest even more interesting and challenging, Brett.

Nov 16, 2020 13:05:13 GMT -5 playvectrex said:

... I wanted to also mention that the ranking algorithm might need to be tweaked. I noticed that I was in 5th place, and I did not submit any further scores and ended up 4th. I'm sure there is a logical explanation for this based on the ranking algorithm, but that doesn't really seem fair .

Isn't it cool to do nothing and rank even higher? Here's an explanation: 1st rank is always 100 points, but scoring of other ranks depend on the number of participants: If you have a good rank in a game that is played by few people you will get less points than in a game with many people.

Example:

If you're second in a game that three players played you'll get 54 points.

If you're second in a game that 10 players played you'll get 85 points.

The additional score submissions made your high rankings per game even more valuable and thus your overall ranking went up.

[D-Type]

hcmffm couldn't have explained it better myself, even though I invented the scoring algorithm. 

Here's another thought...if you play games and register scores that *aren't* in your personal top 6 to reduce the points of a close opponent, you better beat that opponent on the non-top 6 games, because if you don't, you're actually raising their points because they've beaten another person.

In pinball tournaments, with 100-200 competitors over a couple of days (which is what the scoring algorithm was designed for), your overall position moves up and down a lot as different players take part. If you have a lot of average scores, you'll get beaten by a player that has half top scores and half rubbish scores. The algorithm thus encourages people to take risks when playing and makes it more exciting. The end of tournament period is intense with all the scores rolling in, even if you've already played all your games.