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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 11:54:49 GMT -5
Are they all scumbags who don't feel any need to respect creators and actually ask for permission before appropriating things for their cartridges or do I just have a target on my back? I went through this over a decade ago with Sean Kelly, I used to routinely have to issue takedown notices to eBay (especially for CDrom leeches) and now I have to bitch at Madtronix for doing the same damn thing.
Bad enough that the ROM scene (clrmamepro and such) still tags all homebrews as "PD" when they're not but people actually in the community should know better.
Sure didn't miss dealing with this crap while I was AFK.
For the record and for the 100th time. Everything I have ever created is protected under copyright law. Anything posted online is for personal use only. Nobody has permission to resell or redistribute any of it in any way.
/rant
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Post by madtronix on Apr 29, 2014 12:41:56 GMT -5
Oh did I Include a game of yours without permission?
Mea culpa!
I'm really, really sorry.
I took big care 2007 to ask everyone I could find who programmed ROMs for their permissions. Even if they could be grabbed off various sites as PD ROMs.
Now 7 years later I digged out my notices from back then and read a note that I was not supposed to include the game Vix. So I must have asked you back then but cannot find the email anymore. Of course I did not include Vix then.
Respecting everyone in the retro game scenes is really important to me (for instance I'm not selling my multicarts in the SK shells)
Just let me know the games/demos you made and don't want to have included and I will gladly remove them.
Please accept my apologies, I did not intend to disrespect you or your works.
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Post by 50tbrd on Apr 29, 2014 13:11:18 GMT -5
The Spinner Hacks and the 8 Ball Demo.
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Post by VectorX on Apr 29, 2014 13:12:03 GMT -5
Tsunami and Omega Chase.
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Post by madtronix on Apr 29, 2014 13:23:51 GMT -5
Okies, will fix that.
Is there any information on that on some website? I must've been uncareful or it indeed is like Christopher said that all the sites list his stuff as PD.
I'm sometimes slow responding, but I always respected everyone else.
Didn't know about the spinner hacks either, will have to look for someone to rewrite them, I really like them.
This also means that there is some space on the carts left, so if anyone wants their games/demos spread, just drop me a line.
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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 13:25:08 GMT -5
Based on the contents of your website, please remove the following for your cartridge, printed inserts and website:
Omega Chase
Tsunami
VIX
Pop
8 Ball Demo
Phillyclassic Demo
I cannot claim ownership of the Spinnerama hacks as they are derivative works of properties belonging to Jay Smith. So I will leave it to you to do what you think is the right thing but my preferences should be obvious.
I'm not sure what else of mine you might have included. It shouldn't be up to me to audit your cartridge or police your activities.
Did you obtain permission from all the other homebrew developers who's work you have included? Given that you don't seem to know the providence of much of what's on your cartridge I have to wonder who else you've simply appropriated from.
BTW - My understanding of Jay Smith's licensing is that the original Vectrex games are available for "non-commercial" use. So I would suggest that unless you are selling your cartridges at cost then you are in violation of his terms as well (this goes for all multi-cart manufacturers but I think it's worth saying).
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Post by 50tbrd on Apr 29, 2014 14:06:33 GMT -5
Unfortunately, what is termed freely downloadable/personal use has become synonymous with the term public domain. Even wikipedia states "In the mid-1990s, head of Smith Engineering Jay Smith put the entire Vectrex product line into public domain" and sites it as being propagated within "Barton, Matt and Loguidice, Bill. (2007). A History of Gaming Platforms: The Vectrex, Gamasutra". I recall the exact wording as stated above by Chris. However, I also have to state that its subjective what cost is, or how much of cost can be attributed to labor. What is considered in compliance for multicarts? Sean's is 55 when new, Vectrom is 50, Andrew's is 60.
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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 14:30:37 GMT -5
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Post by 50tbrd on Apr 29, 2014 14:50:49 GMT -5
Yes, and just because its in wikipedia doesn't mean that its fact either.
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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 15:02:06 GMT -5
Yeah, the Wikipedia mention was based on the Gamasutra article. I've edited the Wikipedia page to remove it, we'll see if it sticks but at least it's editable - Chris Romero already complained in the comments of the Gamasutra article but they obviously don't care to fix it.
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Post by madtronix on Apr 29, 2014 15:09:48 GMT -5
Ok, I will make sure than no ROMS with these titles appear on the cards. Do you have a website or is your wish anywhere on the Internet clearly stated? Is there a website listing your work, so I can avoid mishappenings in the future, should there be more? I'm just asking because as referenced in the other posts the general understanding indeed seems to be that they are PD and/or freely available for download (not only on chinese sites), thus even I who tried to research as thorough as possible made a big mistake there. Yes I got permissions for Thrust, nebula commander, revector, VecSports, John Dondzila's games, City Bomber (the anonymous programmer emailed it to me for the multicard) and Bombenhagel. Till now everyone was very positive and half of them thought it was strange I asked in the first place. Those who didn't want works of them included (you - vix and someone else) didn't get them included. Well and with your other ROMs a misunderstanding happened. I think I got them from a .zip file somewhere. With the current batch of cards I can definitely say that I'm selling them at or more likely below costs due to some really bad choices of mine. Even without these bad choices no clever businessman would put that much work in something that will sell 200 times max in the next 5 years. I understand my work as a tribute to this wonderful console and wonderful scene. Some people make games, some write magazines and websites and some make hardware. |
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Post by madtronix on Apr 29, 2014 15:23:49 GMT -5
Does Sean sell his multicard once a year for just 55 USD? My 32 games jumper multicarts (comparable to vectrom) sells for 33 USD shipped My 74 games menudriven multicart (comparable to Andrew's cart) sells for 53 USD shipped My 112 games (well now some less) handpainted boxed 2 multicart bundle sells for 109 USD shipped, that's 25 USD more than Andrew's boxed multicart sells for. So I don't know what's a fair price, I just can say mine are the cheapest to obtain. My Vectrex work till today has always been around no-profit. |
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Post by zector on Apr 29, 2014 15:30:58 GMT -5
So Christopher... you "cannot claim ownership of the Spinnerama hacks as they are derivative works", but you can claim ownership over Omega Chase, Tsunami, and VIX. which are clones of the copyrighted arcade games, Omega Race, Tempest and QIX?
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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 15:32:05 GMT -5
I don't think it's unreasonable for you to assume you do not have permission to rebublish anything until you actually have permission. It is super-standard procedure in publishing (etc) to clear the rights before publishing, not after.
Copyright protection is automatic, there is no requirement under copyright law to post notices anywhere. Taking the word of some ROM collectors or quasi-legal abandonware site is far from due diligence (the copyright notices on the title screens would be a good clue though). I'm not exactly sure how you could be aware enough not to include VIX, but then think it's ok to include everything else.
I have not been active in the Vectrex community, until recently, in a very long time. My website is long dead. I can only make my list based on the game lists on your site and the photos of your printed list (which conflict).
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Post by christophertumber on Apr 29, 2014 15:35:03 GMT -5
So Christopher... you "cannot claim ownership of the Spinnerama hacks as they are derivative works", but you can claim ownership over Omega Chase, Tsunami, and VIX. which are clones of the copyrighted arcade games, Omega Race, Tempest and QIX? |
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